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on the border line between the US and Mexico
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Monday, September 5, 2022

Erick "El 85" Valencia Salazar, Former Co-Founder of CJNG, Captured in Tapalpa, Jalisco

"Socalj" & “Ivan” for Borderland Beat



Ricardo Trevilla Trejo, Chief of the General Staff announced that the capture was carried out during the early hours of Monday through a joint effort of the Army with the National Guard (GN) and other institutions to capture Erick Valencia Salazar, also known as "El 85."


The information was communicated by Trevilla in the framework of the commemorative ceremony of the 199th anniversary of the General Staff, where he took the opportunity to highlight the work done by the Army.

Detention photo of the 2022 arrest of "El 85".

New information has been released on the arrest of “El 85”. He was arrested through a coordinated operation between the Mexican Army, National Guard, CNI-Cenfi, FEMDO (FGR), and the General Directorate of International Police Affairs (Interpol Mexico) in the municipality of Tapalpa, Jalisco. The joint operation was formed in order to limit their movements and reduce the possibility of violent action.




The intelligence and inter-institutional coordination work carried out with the CNI-Cenfi, FEMDO (FGR) and the General Directorate of International Police Affairs (Interpol Mexico) made it possible to locate Erick, who was captured along with two others, Cristian Alberto N and Jose Luis N. 


The men were arrested with various amounts of drugs and several weapons including 1,000 pills of possible fentanyl, 750g of probable methamphetamine, possible cocaine, 4 short arms, and 1 5.56mm rifle.

Erick Valencia Salazar has an arrest warrant for extradition to the United States.


2012 Arrest & Release

The first time that El 85 was arrested was on March 9, 2012. Several bursts of gunfire were exchanged during the operation in the Guadalajara metro area suburb. When he was arrested, he was accused of organized crime, stockpiling weapons meant for the exclusive use of the Army, Navy, and Air Force, and possession of ammunition for the exclusive use of the Army, Navy, and Air Force. 


On that occasion, there were reports of narco blockades and the burning of vehicles to stop military actions in Guadalajara. Armed men, presumably working for the Jalisco Nueva Generacion Cartel, commandeered buses and other vehicles in Guadalajara and other parts of the state, setting many of them on fire. The disturbances mobilized hundreds of security and emergency personnel and created significant panic, as well as traffic jams.


It took 5 years for Jalisco Third District Judge Alejandro Castro Peña to grant him his freedom. The judge cited "detecting violations of due process and lack of evidence.” Narco messages were then hung at several points including Plaza de la Bandera in Guadalajara [GDL]. The messages were part of the ongoing, violent, CJNG infighting in Jalisco. They accused three levels of government of assisting "El Mencho." Specifically, saying that judges allowed “El 85”, to go free from prison. On December 30, 2017, he left Cefereso de Puente Grande. 


El 85 & El Mencho

Erick Valencia Salazar was one of the lieutenants of Milenio Cartel or Cartel de Los Valencia before he got involved with the Sinaloa Cartel. He was the former leader of the criminal group "Los Mata Zetas" founded together with "El Mencho." Under the leadership of Erick Valencia Salazar, they tried to take the place left by "Nacho Coronel."

Nemesio Oseguera Cervantes, "El Mencho," leader of the CJNG, made use of alliances with small criminal organizations that operated locally in different states in Mexico, as well as the use of violence to seize territory to grow CJNG. He also used betrayal.



According to reports from the Secretary of National Defense (Sedena), Valencia Salazar never had absolute control of the region. Upon the death of "Nacho" Coronel; "El Mencho" and "El 85" began to fight for the plaza against "La Resistencia,” who was allied with "La Familia Michoacana" and "Los Zetas". Eventually, along with several from their prior network, formed Cartel de Jalisco Nueva Generacion (CJNG).

It has been alleged that "El Mencho" betrayed Erick Valencia Salazar and handed him over to the authorities to keep himself in full control of the new cartel. Enrique Sánchez Martínez, "El Cholo", was one of the closest and most trusted people of "El Mencho", but declared war after differences over the murder of "El Colombiano", (a financial operator of the criminal organization) and resulted in the separation of Sánnchez Martínez from the CJNG in March 2017 and since then he dedicated himself to recruiting people to form the Cartel Nueva Plaza. Upon his release, "El 85" seemingly split from the CJNG, run by "El Mencho" joining "El Cholo" in Nueva Plaza.

There has been much debate and contradicting messages from the two cartel groups themselves on whether "El 85" is aligned with or against "El Mencho" and whether Mencho helped with the prison release or refused to do so. While the narco manta mentioned above points out the involvement of the CJNG in securing his release with the help of corrupt government officials; a later video put out by Nueva Plaza stated that "El Mencho" refused to help and cited numerous other betrayals by Mencho. 

Last year, in March of 2021, "El Cholo" was captured by members of the CJNG, tortured, interrogated on camera, and brutally killed. The question of "El 85's" loyalty is still questioned and many say he has stayed with or gone back to working with Mencho as he has been able to survive for this long until his capture.

Early morning Twitter account  Toño Neri Johnston reported that a strong military operation was carried out in Tapalpa, Jalisco, leading to the recapture of Erick Valencia Salazar “El 85” cofounder of CJNG along with Mencho Oseguera. I could be wrong, but Erick Valencia Salazar “El 85” was still with CJNG. A corrido by Los Alegres Del Barranco named “El del Palenque” dedicated to Mencho Oseguera leader of CJNG, mentions that El 85 is still with CJNG."

Brazos armados que tengo
Los Elite y Los Guerreros
A los amos del terror
Los Delta y de El Jardinero
También del 85
A las órdenes de Mencho”… 

English Translation
“Armed arms I have
The Elite and the Warriors
The Masters of Terror
The Delta and the Gardener
Also from 85
At the orders of Mencho”



US Reward & Arrest Warrant

The United States Department of State, since his suspicious release in 2017, is offering a reward of up to $5 million for information leading to the arrest and/or conviction of Erick Valencia-Salazar.

Valencia-Salazar is charged in a 2018 federal indictment in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia for violations of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 959, 960, and 963 (Conspiracy to Distribute Five Kilograms of Cocaine for Importation into the U.S.) and Title 18, United States Code, Section 2 (Aiding and Abetting).

Erick Valencia-Salazar is a Mexican drug trafficker who was a founding member and one of the alleged leaders of the Cartel de Jalisco Nueva Generacion (CJNG), a violent drug trafficking organization. Valencia-Salazar is allegedly responsible for the illegal importation of cocaine from Mexico and elsewhere for distribution in the United States since approximately 2003. Valencia-Salazar allegedly controls large areas of central Mexico, including important drug trafficking regions such as Jalisco, Baja California, Colima, and Michoacán. Valencia-Salazar is allegedly involved in kidnapping, murder, public corruption, and other illegal activities.






Graphics by HEARST. 
The first image used in the article features an image from El 85's 2012 arrest, not his current 2022 detention, which has had no photos released as of the creation of the graphics. 

118 comments:

  1. Cjng groupies will say that he was fighting mencho reason why he got arrested 😂

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    Replies
    1. 8:39 looks like u need a bandaid lol or u one of those worthless groupies

      Delete
    2. @6:42/10:03 You seem to lack intelligence. You just asked and answered your own question weirdo.

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    3. @11:38
      No questions were asked.

      Delete
    4. El 85 es quien puso al mencho enfrente y este lo a entregado 2 veses. el mensho el torcido o el cuernudo entrego a Maradona al Lobo valencia y al tigre Valencia

      Delete
  2. Le combiene al cjng su captura porque el 85 tenia acuerdos con la mayiza

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    Replies
    1. entonces lo pusieron los menchos.

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    2. Simon una donation pa quitarse a los gabachos de encima departe de AMLO

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    3. 6:51 Si yo sabia que la Mayatiza le puso el dedo, nunca van a cambiar esas 🐁🐁🐁

      Delete
  3. Ao was this dude still with CJNG or not? I know in this post it says he sided with cholo, but other sources still have him as been Cjng, so which one is it?

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    Replies
    1. If you read it says still cjng

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    2. El 85 has never been Nueva Plaza.

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    3. After he was released from prison he joined El Cholo's group which became the Nueva Plaza Cartel. This wasn't the brightest move he made. Nueva Plaza were never big international players. I believe the U.S. has a warrant for his arrest, but I don't believe it was for moving significant quantities of drugs.

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    4. After he was released from prison he became part of El Cholo's group which became the Nueva Plaza Cartel. I don't know why he didn't return to CJNG because there was no way that he and El Cholo could move the quantities that were moved by CJNG.
      El Cholo was out because he whacked El Colombiano. Mencho sent a sicario after him who was whacked by Nueva Plaza. Mencho did eventually get to El Cholo and had him tortured and killed.
      Valencia Salazar maintained a low profile. Nueva Plaza was never a major player and mostly involved in low level crimes in the Guadalajara metro area. I believe that the U.S. has an arrest warrant for Valencia Salazar for drug smuggling but it can't be for a very large quantity.
      Valencia Salazar will be screwed if he's sent to the U.S. All of the information that he possesses on CJNG is more than a decade old and useless to the U.S. government. He really has nothing to give the U.S. in exchange for a lenient sentence so will probably do a pretty good stretch if he's sent to the U.S.
      The judge in his old case was intimidated and ordered him released. Nueva Plaza doesn't have the ability to intimidate a judge like CJNG so he may not be able to wiggle out of this one. I am also thinking he has an old homicide case that he hasn't answered for yet.

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    5. 6:59 i did read it and at first it didnt mention he was still cjng, if you read a paragraph above that it says "Upon his realease he seemingly split fron CJNG, run by "El Mencho" forming the nueva plaza" i still this he is CJNG, cause Cholo is the one who founded nieva plaza and actually told Erick in a video to join him in nueva plaza, but i daught Erick was stupid enough to join cholo, Erick had seen first hand how powerfull CJNG is, so why even try to fight cjng if he knew that he would end up like cholo, plus he and mencho go way back, so there was no real reazon to go against CJNG

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    6. 7:38:
      He started Nueva Plaza with El Cholo. It would have made more sense for him to stay with CJNG. If he felt that Mencho wasn't giving him his due, he would have quickly risen in the ranks if he stayed with Mencho. His leaving CJNG makes no sense.
      The thing that I was interested to hear in relation to El Cholo was his mentioning that he had an agreement with Harfuch right before he died. I have always thought of and respected Harfuch as an honest law man but I could be wrong. El Cholo was low by even criminal standards so it is difficult to believe anything he says.

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    7. Erick never split from cjng he would of got obliterated by cjng if he did

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    8. @8:13 No, he wasn't in Nueva Plaza and he didnt started Nueva Plaza with El Cholo. You can check on YouTube the video of El Cholo where he's asking Eric to join him. I'm sure that if Eric would have been in Nueva Plaza, Cholo wouldn't have mentioned his name.

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    9. @detroit "Que paso Don Erick, nomas cayo al bote y se olvido que eran companeros y patron tambien. Le quitaron todo el estado de Colima y la mitas de Jalisco. Y digame, con cuanto le ayudo Mencho para salir del bote?" El Cholo, message for El 85. This doesnt sound like El 85 was part of Nueva Plaza or the founder of it.

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    10. My personal understanding is that El 85 was not a founder or even a part of Nueva Plaza. It was a rumor that became christened as fact by an underinformed Wikipedia author and the idea has spread ever since.

      I believe that unless you are deep in the Wikipedia writing game, you can't just edit out incorrect information. It just reverts back to the original version. So until one of the important wiki editors takes notice of the error, we're all stuck having to re-teach people that "no, there is no evidence supporting the idea that El 85 ever joined CNP."

      Delete
    11. HEARST
      Call me drunk and a loser but I think that wiki "article" was intentionally created to cause confusion by somebody with ulterior motives. It's straight up dogshit and IDK if its ever been updated but that shit is bunk. 🎶 don't give me no bammer "green"🎶

      Delete
    12. Damn no disrespect to MX as he knew the Golfo region well and has the schooling to research the subjects of interest with certitude. I'll say it was a GBTA😜😝😂🤣🍺

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    13. @5:29am
      The edit about 85 being in CNP could be intentional misinformation. It's possible.

      The original author of the article was BB contributor MX and it did not have that CNP section in it. MX wrote prolifically on Wikipedia about Mexican cartel figures and I can tell you he was not intentionally spreading misinformation.

      I believe the person who added it is listed as anonymous.

      But I don't have the time to really comb through the edits thoroughly, so here's the whole edit list:

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:History/Érick_Valencia_Salazar

      Btw, everytime you happen to find yourself reading a Mexican cartel Wikipedia article, check the author history. Most of the time MX is listed in there somewhere, which is really cool.

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    14. Hey HEARST, any idea on what's going on with MX, if he's okay or if he's still doing things for BB behind the scenes?

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    15. He commented on a story about a month ago or so. He talks about wanting to coming back and write, he just gets busy with life.

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    16. Hearst:
      I get the bulk of my narco news from following Borderland Beat. I usually trust this site above others. When something inaccurate gets posted here, it usually sticks with me.
      It has never made sense that 85 would have left CJNG. This makes more sense.

      Delete
    17. 10:36:
      Him aligning with El Cholo didn't make sense to me either. Chivis posted that he was Nueva Plaza. Chivis knows a lot more than I do about the cartels, so I am inclined to trust what Chivis said.
      As I mentioned in another post, our understanding of the underworld evolves as changes are made and new information becomes available. I have never put much thought into 85 after his release. I have always assumed that he was still in the game and laying low. He may have retired or had continued in some role with CJNG, who knows. Currently, there is no reliable information on him in the public domain. The postings here lead me to believe that my thoughts on him may have been incorrect.

      Delete
    18. I have a lot of respect for your understanding of these things, Mr. Detroit. I could very easily be wrong. I was wrong just this week about what source I trusted on the El Max article.

      Things are nebulous, we're all just trying to figure out secrets that are intentionally kept in the dark and doing our best. I really love when everybody discusses this stuff in the comments and shares what they know. It makes us better.

      Delete
  4. El.sapo lo sapeo no quiere competencia para subir a la jefatura del cjng

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    Replies
    1. With what result? Supposedly el JP3 is also in line. I heard el 85 had control of the outer areas of Zapopan, Jalisco. El RR has turf in the Guadalajara central. El Sapo has Puerto Vallarta and likely import duties. Looks like they are just Mencho's distributors. I still have thoughts about whether Mencho acts as a lieutenant/head of security for the Valencia family business. Also, anyone know more about La Garra? It's said he's Mencho's biggest operator in LA/Bay Area

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    2. I tried finding out about La Garra a while back since he’s very low key. Someone told me he died but I couldn’t find any info on that. He’s basically a ghost as well

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    3. La garra is b.s puros cuentos chinos

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    4. Maradona hiso fuerte a su hijo el 03 , el 03 hiso fuerte a los cuinis sus tios .mensho lo pusieron de jefe el 85 y los cuinis sale Maradona se muere mensho y el poder vuelve a quedar al verdadero heredero de Maradona que es el armandillo el 03 que el si es Valencia

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  5. All those cjng corridos turned out to be all hype n fake too...

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    Replies
    1. Nothing compared to cds style corridos

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    2. 7:29 have you heard the JGL corrido? "Es el jefe lo es y lo era GIRA y SE PARA LA TIERRA SI JOAQUIN LO ORDENA" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 y eso que no exageran sus corridos, ahora imajinate si exageraran

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    3. 8:15 u in love with those corridos seems like 😂

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    4. No se enoje juan gabrielona sigan escuchando musica de Sinaloa

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    5. Music de sinaloas is garbage 🗑

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    6. If it's garbage why do michoacacas listen to it trying hard asf to be like them

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    7. La musica de los Sinaloas es tan falsa como sus buchonas 🤣🤣🤣

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    8. El chapós word still goes in Sinaloa,
      What do you mean?

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    9. 12:09 who you talking to? If you want an answear write who your comment is directed to

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  6. Under indictment in US

    I think filed in DC from 2018 crackdown announced by Jeff Sessions with like 5 indictments against CJNG leadership

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. J:
      He might have an indictment from his CJNG days. I don't believe Nueva Plaza ever moved large quantities into the U.S.

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  7. Replies
    1. But is it? I thought he was now just a leader for CJNG’s rival Nueva Plaza Cartel. I think he’s working against the CJNG but then again he might also help authorities.

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  8. Mencho snitched, like always taking down other leaders who are really from jalisco with influences only wants his Michoacanos to be under him licking his boots.

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    Replies
    1. 8:20 this guy is not from jalisco

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  9. Why would a group from Sinaloa make a corrido for their sponsors enemy’s

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    Replies
    1. There's a lot singing groups these days that sign for anybody. It's not like before that it was a lil bit more strict. Even Banda MS which stand's for Banda Mazatlan Sinaloa has a song for the Zetas.

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    2. Mientras no faltes al respeto y obviamente pidas permiso y te paguen el corrido puedes hacerlo.

      Ejemplo clarisimo Los Tucanes de Tijuana

      Corridos al:
      Cartel de Tijuana/CAF
      Cartel de Sinaloa
      Cartel de Juárez
      Cartel del Golfo
      Los Zetas
      Beltranes
      Y asi nos podemos ir, pero cuando sabes escribir corridos puedes cantar y grabarlos.

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    3. Si Pero la mayoría de esos de esos carteles que nombraste los señorones de esos carteles son sinaloenses excepto golfo y zetas

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    4. 9:05 es por el poderoso don dinero y aparte nadie quiere escuchar corridos con arpa y banda con teclados que se escucha allá en el sur.

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    5. 739 Callese pinchi borracho cabrón.

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    6. 6:31 wins big time!!!

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  10. El 85 always firmes with cjng

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  11. Mencho snitched on him 🐀 🐀🐀🐀

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But he's not from Sinaloa? Or was Mencho secretly born in Sinaloa?

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    2. Well he’s from michoacan a copycat of the sinaloas

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    3. 1:18 no body wants to be a snitch

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    4. 10:12 Well no one wants to, but when it comes to a situation where you either life in prison or you snitch , a lot of guys plus you would snitch.

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    5. 10:39 again with the you would also snitch? Dont want to get into it but you are 100% a snitchloa just like Snitchapo

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    6. 10:12 They do if it’s their enemy.

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  12. Isn't he one of the Valencia brothers? Cuinis?

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  13. They didn't burn the city? Does he not have the same influence as RR?

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    Replies
    1. When he got out of jail he retired & let Mencho run the group. They caught him on last week. They had said they caught a big fish that it was probably el Mencho but it was really el 85

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    2. @Blanko yes I believe El 85 is the step brother or cousin of El Lobo Valencia.

      @Billy Jean El 85 and Mencho Osegura are founders of CJNG. Maybe El 85 was not as active as before and just trying to stay low. In my opinion, El RR is the present now his plaza boss of Guanajuato but does not make him more important than El 85. El 85 is related to El Lobo Valencia and most likely is wanted badly by the government.

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    3. @11:58 simón hace unos días lo mencionó ya sabes quién. Según fue por la capital y también se dijo Colima si mal no recuerdo.
      5+ guardado, 4+ libres. Aver cómo le toca en está ocasión...

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    4. Just my personal opinion but it has seemed like 85 was semi-retired, like he's a plaza boss, making a profit but 85 was no longer a part of organizing and strategizing CJNG's expansion efforts, whereas El RR was very involved in just that.

      The CJNG's complete lack of a reaction, them not creating blockades, is likely meant as a signal.

      Seems like CJNG higher ups want to make it clear that they expected, and in a sense, allowed it.

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    5. Ivan he can't be Lobo's step brother as they can't have the same father or mother, los apellidos no concuerdan en su orden

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    6. Ivan thank you for answering my question. Stay safe

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    7. Retirement makes sense but working with CNP makes no sense.

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  14. Can any1 share why talpalpa and comment on the groups of influence in that area, if any?

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    Replies
    1. No idea why Tapalpa except that El85 used to be the boss of western Jalisco and Colima before his arrest in 2012, so he may still have influence in this area.

      The area is also very much CJNG controlled as far as I know considering it's also not too far from El Grullo, Villa Purificacion, which are CJNG strongholds where El Mencho is rumored to have safehouses and even the private hospital where he is hiding.

      Delete
  15. El Cholo of Nueva Plaza is his video sending a message to El 3 stepson of Mencho, also, mentioned El 85, but clearly El Cholo wanted El 85 to join his group. El 85 for me and I don't have insight or sources was both retired and staying low after getting out of prison.

    El 85 again is just as important as Mencho because without El 85's support Mencho probably would have not defeated La Resistencia. I remember years ago that in BB there was an article that mentioned that there was bad blood between El 85 and Mencho so again opinions will be divided. Tapalpa is a CJNG zone someone correct me if I am wrong I don't mind being corrected.

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  16. IG las primeras letras
    Nacio y el nombre completa
    Coro se hiso en la familia
    Nel su apellido termina. 🦂

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 🤦‍♂️ Malditas drogas! Otro Zombie!!!

      Delete
  17. Ivan your correct my understanding Tapalpa Is CJNG atleast from what I read online and hear people talk about from that area. EL 85 seam not to be that active. I wouldn't doubt he still had control of certain areas without his consent certain things wouldn't get greenlit. What I do know there's levels to it and he's up there at the top being active or not. I'm surprised it's not all over social media. This should be bigger news.

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  18. Manchester trying to flex his power within the government. STOP POINTING FINGERS AT PEOPLE WHO TALK TO THE GOVERNMENT, IF MENCHO DOES THE SAME

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  19. This guy is an absolute ghost, this is the last person I expected to be arrested this morning. I really hope this sheds some light on his role after his release. He was originally a big player in western Jalisco and Colima (correct me if I'm wrong), can this arrest have anything to do with the internal CJNG power grab in that area now that La Vaca is gone?

    ReplyDelete
  20. Érick Valencia Salazar, commonly referred to by his alias El 85, is a Mexican suspected drug lord and high ranking leader in the Nueva Plaza Cartel. He previously served as a high-ranking leader of the Jalisco New Generation Cartel, a criminal group based in Jalisco. Wikipedia

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Its been long-discussed online how that Wikipedia article about 85 is incorrect about him being a part of CNP.

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    2. 1:41 i can only imagine if we all got our info from wikipedia 🤣

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  21. He’s a Valencia he’s a 100 percent mencho

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    Replies
    1. Hes not related to the other Velencias from Mellenio Cartel and CJNG.

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    2. You sure about that@6:24? Con que autoridad respaldo a qué el nuevo jefe o colíder fuera El Gallero?

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  22. To get a better understanding of this individual readers should check out all the articles linked and also the comments. You might recognize some🍺

    ReplyDelete
  23. To me this is a chess move. The other one was recently approved. 4T we'll see

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Leverages. The fat one was ordered to somehow find a way to stay within. That privilege will have a cost. Everyone that's someone will be brought inline. The only question is how heavy of a hand must be used on those who resist his vision?

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  24. High ranking member of cjng, no problem he will be out, the back door, after a bribe is paid to curupt judge.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Does anyone want to take bets on whether they'll officially release a new photo of El 85? They never did with RCQ. Is it now federal policy not to release any photos of detainees?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There is a photo of Rafa that’s new it wasn’t a mug shot but it showed him being detained it looked like he had plastic surgery

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    2. There is actual picture supposely oh him

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    3. Ok I bet 12 pack of 7-up, that a photo will be released, but with face covering of eyes and his last name will be redacted.

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    4. En ese link esta la foto actual de el , de acuerdo a la sedena ,espero ayude

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    5. any time , crees sea el en realidad?

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  26. Erick Valencia Salazar “El 85” arrested in Tapalpa, Jalisco.

    ReplyDelete
  27. https://www.reddit.com/r/NarcoFootage/comments/x79813/erick_valencia_salazar_el_85_arrested_in_tapalpa/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

    ReplyDelete
  28. “Érick Valencia Salazar, alias “El 85,” has reportedly joined up with the group on occasion to help in its fight agains the CJNG, despite having previously allied with El Mencho.”


    https://insightcrime.org/mexico-organized-crime-news/carteles-unidos/

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  29. El 85 was just in the way.
    He's a boss but not a big boss

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  30. Next to be arrested is El 86 then El 87 up to El 9786.

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  31. All speculation about what he was up to ever since he was released from prison. No one knows. I hope we do get an understanding in the next couple days.

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  32. Maybe a failed attemp to arrest mencho, he got released and was been tracked to see if he made any contact with mencho, didnt work so now they pull the plug and he is back in jail

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    Replies
    1. 6:14 Salió libre cuando estaba EPN so quien sabe cómo estuvo ese pedo

      Delete
  33. If 85 would left he Woud and up like el cholo

    ReplyDelete
  34. Once again arrested drug lord try to fly under the radar in a fuck up town. Can not even enjoy the money they make....

    ReplyDelete

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