Thursday, November 7, 2019

Op-Ed: Lebaron family is more Mexican than American--and other points of contention

Op-Ed by Chivis Martinez Borderland Beat

Let it be known, I do not want to write this Op-Ed. 

Covering the Lebaron massacre story, and moderating the over 1000 comments that followed has been eye-opening.  Even to a long time narco-blogger such as myself. 

I purposely posted reports from the U.S., Mexico and global contributions. I did this to provide differences in reporting, which I always find interesting.

The amount of racism, “whataboutisms”, Americans vs Mexicans, and now blame the victims is staggering.

First point of misinformation was the spin… “9 Americans killed by Mexican Cartel”.

Say What??

OK, while technically correct, it is fundamentally incorrect.  The Lebaron family is more Mexican citizen than American.  One only has to understand that even after this tragedy, they are staying put, in their homeland of Mexico.

I saw two members of the Lebaron family giving interviews.  I can’t recall one name but the other was Daniel.  A question was asked of them if they would now move to “America”.  Daniel seemed perplexed as to why one would ask such a question.  “No. Mexico is our home, we have been here over 100 years."

And that’s the focal point of my argument.  The Lebaron family is more Mexican citizen than American. 

No one is getting that element correct.  “Dual citizens” would be accurate, if one must.

Blame the victim

Of the 1000 comments I received, 28 wrote in about the family’s history of violence, although I am sure the majority have heard of troubles in the family. Those comments were from outside Mexico, and many pointed to a 12 year old documentary.

I chose not to post those comments, and chose not to focus on any trouble the family had in the past with some of their members.  I felt it was ill-timed, and unnecessary.  I know that the Mexican government and narcos would love the attention to be shifted from them onto the bad history of some members of the Lebaron family.

A popular west coast newspaper chose to focus on the criminal element of some of the members. 

Narcos want to know where to send the thank you flowers.

Shameful.

And at least 28 followers of Borderland Beat latched on to this aspect of the story thereby giving narcos a pass.  

Yet, from Mexico we received 2 dozen comments from those who know the family personally or live close to them, they hail Julian Lebaron as a good man, a humanitarian, working for the people’s land rights.

One such comment:
“My family is from Chihuahua not far from Galeana where the LeBaron family has a colony at. They are hardworking humble people I have personally met and interacted with many from their community. This was not La Linea because ALL of the heads of La Linea know and respect the family for their help and actions in the communities of that area. Either ways Mexico’s corrupt politicians will not let the U.S get involved because it will uncover a lot more than cartel activities. It will uncover lists and names of corrupt politicians. I agree with Trump on this one, you need a REAL military to take control because as sad as it is Mexico can’t or doesn’t want to deal with it.”
 
This is our time folks!  World attention is on Mexico and the atrocities generated by organized crime, let’s not lose sight of this!  We know these ghastly acts of violence happen on a regular basis in Mexico, Borderland Beat has faithfully reported as many as we could, but unless it is so monstrous, such as the 35 bodies dumped in Boca del Rio, Veracruz, it will not make the  world stage. 

By the way, the attorney general later said in an interview that those 35 were innocents unconnected to organized crime.  Two men had minor offense records, one for stealing bricks. 

They were used as props,  they were easy pickings, compliant as the municipal police picked them up and delivered them to El Mencho’s CJNG enforcer group at the time calling themselves “Mata Zetas’ or Zeta killers. 

It is much less messy for corrupt cops to pick up law abiding citizens for these showing kills.  Shortly after the massacre, the entire force was terminated and the feds took over for a while.

However, if one looks for reporting the press outside Mexico, the reporting was not updated, or revised from the original premise of 35 Zetas killed and dumped in front of the World Trading Center.

Trump surprise

I was stunned when Trump’ tweet to AMLO was sent to me.

But I was not surprised at AMLO’s reply, the president who thinks hugs not guns is the answer.

For the record, he has implemented valuable programs, and I think it is only fair to give him his full term before judgement.  BUT, I don’t think he will ever find another U.S. president willing to go hand and hand with Mexico to fight cartels.

It took me back to a time I was at my Coahuila office with my staff about 6 years ago.  One of them asked me if it was true that the U.S. military was coming to Mexico to fight the narcos. 

Apparently this was a rumor.

I said “No. That will never happen. Mexico is a sovereign nation, they would have to ask for help and then it would have to be approved in the U.S.”

She asked, “Why does Mexico have these problems and U.S. doesn’t?” (speaking in generalities of course)

I answered, “In my opinion, the absence of rule of law is directly related to the apathy of Mexico’s people.  The populous accepts criminality as something that can’t be changed, thereby have insulated themselves by disinterest --- unless it happens to their family.”

“In the U.S people care.  People become involved.  People are willing to die for our freedom and welfare of our nation.”

“I don’t see that in Mexico.  That is perplexing to me; We Mexicans are big-hearted, warm and loving souls by nature.  Yet want nothing to do with fighting the evil of the nation. Oh the dichotomy.”

I would like to interject a bit of nervous laughter was the response.  No one said it was not true. 

A book I read “Manana Forever?: Mexico and the Mexicans” it illustrates how everyday behavior is altered when a Mexican national comes to the U.S.  That even small things, such as assuring trash is deposited in a trash receptacle, because it is the right and lawful thing to do. For the majority there is a mind shift--- because it is expected.

“Just because they were white”

This is the complaint I received most often.  And yes, there is some meat on that bone.  History demonstrates little media interest in the victims of Mexico, but by placing the “American” label on the tragedy, and blonde, blue eyed faces, the story exploded.

However, one can’t lose sight of the prize.  If you care about Mexico, care about the countless victims in Mexico, and the fact that narco violence is at an all-time high, and although he was not involved, that Mencho is the greatest security threat ever facing Mexico (I wrote this 5 years ago and have not changed my opinion),  then we should welcome the attention, and grin and bear the flawed way that got us here.

137 comments:

  1. I don't get why atrocities in Mexico get so much less coverage than those that happen in the Middle East. For one, Mexico's a pretty influential nation, and where the US is concerned it's right next door. The US has a large Latino population and its organized crime groups probably have the most detrimental effects on the nation. The situation in Mexico should be receiving a lot of coverage.

    I hate that it takes so much foreign pressure for Mexican officials to act. The sad fact is that the problems in Mexico are so multi-layered that it would take years to address them. That's even assuming officials are doing everything right, which is rarely, if ever the case. I remember reading about Mexico's drug war when Calderon was in office. I knew that addressing corruption and reforming the judicial system would take a long time, but I expected there to be more progress after ten years.

    Interesting thoughts on the different mindsets between Mexican and US culture. I can't judge the average Mexican citizen. I wouldn't be willing to put my life at risk for a cause, and when there's so much corruption there's only so much regular people can do in the short term.

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    1. @12:57, I am an American who is registered as an independent voter. The main stream media is absolutely left leaning. I believe they dont cover it out of fear it would hurt their open borders policies. Can anyone give me a better reason why they dont cover it?

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    2. Regular Mexicans try and come to the U.S. to avoid all the problems Mexico has. Just like Europeans came to America to escapr whatever was happening in their countries of origin. Some crime follows no matter what nationality or country these migrants originate or come from.
      Now to say Mexican crime is most detrimental to this country is not accounting from crimes committed by plenty other groups of people in this country that make up more than 70 percent of this countries population. In other words not only Mexicans live in this country and they are not solely responsible for every crime committed here. This is why Mexican problems are no real concern to the U.S. unless it happens like in this one incident where one American family was involved in unfortunately.

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    3. They let it get this way by accepting and glorifying narco culture. Then they vote in socialist minded government and you wonder why it got this way? There is no rule of law in Mexico. Its corrupt to the bones... thank God they didnt have your attitude during the civil war. I mean theres " only so much regular people can do " right?

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    4. In other words it's a worthless cause.

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    5. " I remember reading about Mexico's drug war when Calderon was in office."

      And you know how peaceful Mexico was before Calderon stared his holy War on Drugs? It was a complete different country, we LIVED IN PEACE. There was corruption, politicians stole money, gangs fought with rocks, knives and other things (now they have fancy AR-15s), narcos/cartels never operated in the cities/urban areas,etc
      Calderon was supposed to be the "Employment president" not a mexican george bush playing with fire and pocking an ugly sleeping giant.

      Now we're entering the Second war on Drugs.

      We're sick and tired of fighting an unwinnable war and prohibitionism exported by UNCLE SAM. I'm amazed how Americans everywhere say saying “How could this happen!” before pausing to do a line of cocaine.

      Yes, you might deflect with the usual "ohh you blame USA, like if this is all of our fault" and how corrupted mexico is and poverty and bla bla.
      But who had the brilliant idea of making substances illegal?
      Who imported poppies into Mexico after WW2?
      Who supported the PRI party ruling mexico for 70 years, the ones who disarmed law abiding citizens in Mexico during the50s/60s.
      Who has the biggest drug market? i know there's addicts everywhere but come on, not even in the most depressed areas of Europe you see as many junkies as in an American "middle class" suburb.
      From where all the weapons that arm those "terrorist" cartels come from? US customs doesn't even check for weapons when crossing to Mexico.

      They get much less coverage because you federal agencies , banks and governments use those evil narcos are proxies for their own benefit just like they used Al-quaeda, Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden (wasn't he america's best friend during the cold war?),etc until those little Frnakesteins and ogre's get out of control and backfire.
      Well, same thing with the Cartels, as long as Uncle Sam gets his cut and the violence doesn'r reach the SW then the Cartels are just criminals, necessary evils and informants. Not terrorists.

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    6. Our mainstream media attempts to construct reality towards leftists socialism, one world corporate economy, and open borders. To that end, any coverage of the border will be predisposed to have us believe the illusion that the border is safe and secure. The exact opposite is the truth. Cartels own the border regions, a simple fact. The middle east is a convenient distraction to keep people focused off the border so as to allow the steady flow of poor illegals, dependent on the government, to further water down the conservative electorate, and redirect our entitlement programs from those who have paid into the system to those who have not. Liberal media, usually abhorrent to victim blaming in the #Me Too movement, has no problem blaming the innocent women and child murdered in Mexico in an attempt to keep their border illusion alive.

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    7. A couple of things:

      1. There are no profits in peace.
      2. The Mexican political/ economic elite maintain social control by means of militarization. The Narco component justifies and is the militarization component. They are purposefully a part of the Mexican military/drug/elitist complex.
      3. As a culture, we use apathy as a coping skill from the modern day feudal system that is Mexico.
      4. As a culture, we give far too much respect to politicians, when in fact they are often times just smart enough to game your respect.
      Sorry

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    8. I said "In the short term". Fixing Mexico's problems is one hell of an undertaking.

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    9. Americans are as apathetic as Mexicans in my experience, in fact, even more so. The Mexicans I have known and worked with will go out of their way to help others and do what is right even when it is difficult. Most Americans do not give a shit about what happens so long as it doesn’t happen to them.

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    10. @12:57 u wrote 'I don't get why atrocities in Mexico get so much less coverage than those that happen in the Middle East'.

      This my friend is because those who control mainstream media use that control for political purposes. Most of us are naive/stupid enough to believe that mainstream media is there to give us the truth.

      Your observation is an excellent (and blatantly obvious) example of that the purpose of mainstream is to shape our opionon (aka brainwashing).

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    11. 5:06

      "Yes, you might deflect with the usual "ohh you blame USA, like if this is all of our fault" and how corrupted mexico is and poverty and bla bla."

      Well...yeah. All of that is true. You making a sarcastic statement about it doesn't make it less true. I'm not saying that the US hasn't contributed to Mexico's problems in some way, but putting the bulk of the blame on anyone besides Mexico's politicians is a load of BS.

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    12. The fact of the matter is that the U.S. is heading in the same direction as Mexico. The social elite in the U.S. or the top 1 percent of rich people own 25 percent of the wealth in this country and growing. 93 or more percent of billionares were born into millionare families to give an idea of who really "makes" it in America. Couple this with a Presidential administration that cuts taxes for the rich and denies tax breaks for the poor as well as flirt with the idea of cutting social welfare programs and the U.S. is destined to go the way of Mexico believe it or not.
      Those that say our penitentiary system is what makes both countries different should be aware that this same system is saturated as it is and might eventually give way with all the expenses this country has cough called national debt.
      Something that all people that kiss up to the wealthy should think about.

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    13. El chappo said under oath...ive given millions to speaker of u.s. congress...who shouts the loudest about Open Borders....its over america

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  2. Being a Mexican-American: In the U.S, I am too Mexican & In México, I am American lmao

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  3. Don’t forget that the USA is corrupt too we have corrupt politicians, law enforcement, government officials, city employees ect. And corrupt millitary so a real army Mexico has them like the marines. Just need to get rid of the corrupt leaders. It would be nice if the USA would send the millitary or law enforcement to help. But I think it’s a double sword see what happens when the USA goes in and helps another country.

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  4. Trump is action-oriented and truly wants to help. Mexican pols do not want anything to change. Mexican narcos are involved in a contest to see who can be the most vicious and evil...who can shed the most blood in the most disgusting way. Lebarons are good, solid, hardworking citizens of two countries, both of which should be happy to claim/help them. Any military operation against the cartels would be a disaster. The only thing to do is for Trump to declare the cartels as terrorist organizations which will allow DOJ to pursue their resourses on a world-wide scale.

    Chivis is a hell of a lady doing a hell of a good job. She deserves everyone's praise, cooperation and deference. Thank you, Chivis.

    Whitey

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  5. Another difference between the US and Mexico is the amount of EXTREME corruption.. in the US EXTREME corruption is the very rare exception, not the rule.

    In Mexico, it is the opposite.

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    1. I think corruption in the US tends more towards "moral" corruption as opposed to "legal" corruption.

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    2. Difference is U.S hides its corruption very well.

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    3. Oh we have corruption in the USA- our leaders have just wrapped it in laws, taxes, fees, and permits.

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    4. 538 blame someone else...

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  6. OK..."meat on that bone"? i lived in mexico for five years and traveled in mexico for ten. i studied the language and the culture and earned a degree in the liturature. if you call me racist you must call yourself racist. there is at least as much racism in mexico as in the us...discrimination is based on the darkness of ones skin and ones racial background, with dark skinned, indigenous people being at the bottom...but nobody talks about it. the lebaron story exploded in the media because the media loves blood, gore, women and children as victims and the shock of the situation. example-38 dead in a truck in england exploded before the victims race was known.

    whitey

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  7. This would be a bigger story if 1. The media wasn’t hyper focused on a phone call 2. These events have an immediate impact on some people that will start supporting money for border security. This would give a win to the one person they all hate.

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    1. Spot on - I have never seen the media so hell bent on trying to destroy someone. It’s absolutely true. You may not like Trump or his mouth or his leadership style - everyone has a right to their own opinion. However - you can’t ignore the results - they are facts (as in the sun will rise in the east and set in the West) and they are never before seen impressive. I have been a Borderland Bear reader for over 6 years now, and from all that I have gathered, I honestly think corruption is the bigger problem in Mexico. Weed out the corrupt and the narcos wouldn't stand a chance.

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    2. 8:21 Organized crime in general can't function without corruption, so you're exactly right.

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  8. All the news coverage the lebarons are getting is because of there fame in Mexico for what they went through 10 years ago, I'm more than sure if it would've been a average humble family with no fame or political ties, they wouldn't have gotten the same attention . And clearly @chivis like you stated no one got off the SUV waving their hands. All bodies where found inside the car burnt. Or are you saying the cartel put the body inside the truck? Smh. The truck exploded cause of a gun shoot to the gas tank.

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    1. The car that was burned did have one body of a woman outside the car and under it. as if shielding herself from the gunfire. the account is given by the children who lived.

      I tend to believe them and their story has not changed

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  9. This publication/story/op-ed....couldn't have been said any better. We are all missing the big point, the big picture. Sad but true on so many levels for both Mexican and American alike. Well written, well spoke, well thought....

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  10. The US media likely would not have reported this story as extensively as they had, if not for Trump's tweet. The mainstream media has already dropped the story. It's as though reporting the cartel violence is viewed as a trump Republican talking point and anti immigration.
    México needs to solve this problem themselves.

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    1. Mexico can’t and America knows it. They also know that their neighbors inability to solve it will lead to bigger issues on their own door. The U.S. HAS tried to help Mexico repeatedly and for years - you don’t think the DEA or CIA or NSA would be able and willing to find these cartel clowns? They could pinpoint Mencho and all the rest in less than a month and probably already know where he is and what he had for dinner. They have grown weary and frustrated from having done this so many times before only to see their efforts go to waste when they try to then collaborate with Mexican officials. Go back and read about the hunt for El Chapo - U.S. officials openly state they’ve been burned so many times by corrupt Mexican officials that there are very, very few they feel they can even communicate with and trust.

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  11. @12:57 PM I think I can answer that.

    Most Americans get their news through mainstream media outlets, which are ultimately owned by the same corporate interests that benefit from US military involvement overseas. Basically,the more the Pentagon spends, the better. So, they are motivated to keep animating the Muslim bogyman overseas who threatens Israel and wants to attack America "because of our freedoms". Highlighting the death and destruction in Mexico would just reflect unfavorably on the War on Drugs. Which the same people profit from.

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    1. you are correct

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    2. finally a smart one!

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    3. Probably the best explanation ever , so well articulated.
      damn!

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    4. @2:59 exactly right!

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    5. There is money made from wars and military actions. However, You are very wrong on your point about Muslims and the war on drugs. You ae either s pasid troll or are very misguided.

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    6. 100% paid troll. Go up to NYC and tell me how the view is from the World Trade Center ..oh wait. Do you know (obviously not) how many terrorist attacks my radical Muslim extremists on American soil have been foiled by the efforts of our Intel community?

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  12. Replies
    1. Hola Donnie I have been thinking of you. I was wondering the status of your brothers murder case in Mazatlan?

      Email if you can't discuss on this forum...

      Abrazos!

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  13. MEXICO siempre sera un narco estado pero al menos estos delicuentes deben de tener mas respeto ala vida...pero lo unico cierto es que el karma siempre le llega al que hace el mal.no discrimina..

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  14. The "problem" in Mexico will never change unless there is a change in government. Taking a hugs approach to a bloodbath is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. AMLO is dreaming, living in a cloud. But that's because he is going to be forced to do so. Probably living a fat (phat) life with hefty bribes from criminals.. Good article though. Mexicans definitely either need to stand up and fight, or sit back and pray and accept (like now); because it will never change without a complete overhaul of the government, and sadly that will not come from hugs and prayer.

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    1. And go back to previous government parties? No thanks.



      VIVA AMLO

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    2. The average Mexican is walking on their knees. Sad

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    3. 6:19 I think you need to understand that just because the previous parties sucked doesn't mean their replacement also doesn't suck.

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  15. Chives, so well written. My grandmother and daughter were born in Mexico. I have connection. I do understand the Mexican they just except corruption. I have lived half my life in Mexico and moved back to the U.S. Its gotten worse. This time I see no hope. Very sad.

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  16. Great post. You won't read this sentiment in mainstream U.S. press.
    You hit on a subject I have studied when you describe the Mexican national reacting to law and order in the USA.
    I've contended for some time that Mexicans will one day carry the GOP banner here. Family oriented, hard working and moral. They work harder than anyone and want to keep the money they earn.
    Great comment from the local that knows about the colonies. Maybe amlo returns law enforcement details (that he took away) assigned to patrol the valleys the Mormons live in.

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    1. GOP banner hahahahaha. I don't think we fit that profile. I'm hoping that outdated political parties fade. Maybe then we can run this country " by the people, for the people"

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    2. Europeans race is not will like by Amlo

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    3. So the blue eyed, blond hair people (American) have preference over all others?
      That's a bit racist. America has nothing to do with what's happening in Mexico. Other than to combat illegal drugs coming into America. These killings and turf wars are created by those same political powers who continue to reap on the deaths of others for profit.
      Humble and noble are not cutting it for change in Mexico.

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  17. This needed to be posted, I was disturbed to say the least at the lack of empathy in the comments of BB followers and commenters over the last few days following this tragic story.. I have been on here more in the last 3 weeks than in the last several months.

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  18. Chivis, As things appear to consistently get worse, to the point that there are now conversations about this trajectory leading MX toward becoming a failed state in a few years, do you see any signs that the people are realizing they must take a stand and change what can't be changed?

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    1. The simple answer is no. and it is no because they feel helpless. They feel it is hopeless to expect change. And the mistrust of anything government, on any level, is as high as it can possibly get.

      Even a simple thing as calling on police to ask for help. Especially municipal and state. Municipal and state agencies are 100 percent in collusion. I had an experience in my first year in Mexico that was eye opening, but one that is too long to share here, it did however teach me the danger and fruitless effort of reporting some crimes.

      I was told long ago to never call on local or state police, that fed agencies were more trustworthy.

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    2. I agree de Chivis, calling the police, when the cartel controls them, is like asking for an early entry to the cemetery. I remember seeing video, of a lady reporting a crime on a off duty police man hitting a bar owner. Later 2 men come to her house a kill her with a gun. Calling 911 got her killed.

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  19. Its not just apathy, it is corruption that increases the apathy making people feel like they cannot make an impact.
    Even US citizens are becoming apathetic towards the government’s ability to improve their lives.
    In Mexico’s case, I wonder what and if there is a ‘powder keg’ that will one day set the people off .

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    1. The government controls the people from having guns to protect thier lives.

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    2. Its not the governments job to improve your life!!!! Your part of the problem...

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    3. 5:04

      "Its not the governments job to improve your life"

      That pretty much IS the job of a government.

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    4. 8:35 - you are the definition of a socialist/communist. You see the government’s role as the be all end all fixer responsible for making all things well and good....if you had any understanding of history you would know that more and bigger government is not the answe and never, ever has been. Part of what made America the super power that it is today is the hands-off, free-market approach that allowed capitalism to do its thing....”pretty much the government’s job” give me a ducking break. That is the mindset of someone who will always be a sheep. Make your own damn “luck”!

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    5. "- you are the definition of a socialist/communist."

      No. I just know that the general job of the government is to improve the society it governs. That's obviously a great oversimplification, but so was the post I was responding to.

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  20. THE Gente Nueva/Gente del Tigre/Chapo or Gente Nueva R-5 ambushed the Lebarons

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    1. @5:15 indeed they finance these politicians campaigns

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    2. Gente nueva de agua Prieta or the Paderes family did

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    3. Ablas nomás por ablar loco ..do your research right ..smh

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    4. R5 has been dead for years you dolt, clearly they mentioned it was Jaguar a few articles ago. CDs is an umbrella for many factions and dto

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    5. Cds plus them Mormons related to mitt Romney's

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  21. What a great article. Borderland Beat is so awesome. Viva Chivis!

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  22. Chivis,
    Interesting commentary, I am very conservative, but I tend to agree with many point that you made. The apathy of many the Mexican people is something that I think has been conditioned over many years and maybe reaching into the 19th century when there were some elitist’s and many very poor people. Also, a time of a very active caste system, first brought by the Spanish and later attempted by the French.

    The violence is most similar to the US in the early 1900’s, but worse. I don’t know everything that AMLO has done in his early term, but if he is allowed to continue I fear a much larger bloodbath will ensue. Already, organized crime all over the county has dramatically increased under his brief tenure.

    While the US will not likely enter a sovereign county such as Mexico unless the Mexican government collapses, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see some drone strikes on some of the Cartel compounds or some of the leaders if they become more embolden to travel about. I would have loved to retire in Mexico as it has some many beautiful areas and we have most of our family there, but it is much too dangerous to do so now.

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    1. The USA military has all the cartels targeted,24/7,in real time.
      Read national enquirer ww3 special edition from 2018
      It won't be a big problem to neutralize all the cartels at the same time.
      ( Of course a invisible new "nice"cartel will be installed after)

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    2. Great! All we need is Mexico to become a true terrorist like that of our middle east villains.
      Drones will only enhance their own criminal powers. Along with the killings.

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    3. The US has no interest in Mexico's war of the Tribes. That's exactly what goes on in many parts of Mexico. Where one's region and Mexican ethnicity is not welcomed nor accepted due to traditional issues.
      We are all racially motivated when it pertains to homestead.

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  23. Because they were white,give me a fuckin break,they may have been killed cause they are white. Are you going to address the deep racism of Mexicans ? Unpalatable truths ?

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  24. @12:57: I Agree about problems in Mexico being "multilayered ". No only that but they are generational and culturally systemic since the Conquistadores. Look at Mexican history and see an endless river of mostly poor people's blood aND fAiled atempts to estables a true Democracy. Mexico is ruled by oligarchs and unseen entities behind the scenes (including the Catholic Church, multinational corporations, and narco-cartels ). Mexicans know this but are helpless to correct things.
    IMO, as an ouside observer, Mexicans are mostly tribal actors who think in terms of plazas. This tribal mindset creates many other problems such as racial/ethnic hatred that them manifest themselves in bloodshed and the formation of violent criminal entities (narco-cartels ).
    Additionally, Mexico is an oligarchy where the common citizen is powerless. The "rich" in its many manifestations have ruled Mexico for generations...and to this very day. Why are things so backward in Mexico? Maybe it's because the rich and powerful benefit.

    My main point is that I am convinced that Mexico is doomed to continue as it has until itliterally remakes itself. I am convinced Mexico's problems are so severely ingrained that no amount of "tinkering" will cure what is genetically programed into its DNA.
    Finally, because of my views above, I think the USA should stay the Hell out of Mexican affairs. To get involved in what Mexico "is" will cause resentments, hatreds, and cost billions of dollars and thousands of American lives....like in Vietnam and the Middle East. God, I pray the USA is not drawn into a bloody quagmire!
    Mexico-Watcher

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  25. To whoever thinks that México doesn’t have a real army , let me tell you something I know for a fact how courageous Mexican soldiers are and laugh at me if you want but they have honour . But Mexico is dealing with a very complicated situation , it has been set for failure by the Illuminati . Now with amlo in power it’s Mexico’s time to take over there country.

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    1. You almost had me until you mentioned the Illuminati. Is what you’re high on available in DC?

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  26. Great article Chivis, thank you for being open and honest

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  27. This site is a living testament of how media brainwashed the masses. Great job chiva.

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  28. Thank You Chivis for this well thought out post.
    Maybe this slaughter of innocent women and children will end up doing some good in some way. Mexico is bleeding.

    ReplyDelete
  29. How come some ex american Mormons that originated from Utah and migrated to mexico because of the u.s banning polygamy and they said they been in mexico for over 100 years and they fight to own it . so why can't the Mexicans or native Americans do the same thing I know its out of the subject but this is total hypocrisy if you ask me . plus every Mexican gets blamed for having family members in cartels or gangs just like they blame Muslims to be terrorists and the u.s wants to eradicate them so that the family doesn't grow back into what they fear most . my point is that its the same situation with the LeBaron Family they work with the sex cult from Albany new York they too have done shit that have hurt another families u.s military has bombed and killed kids too if not the u.s then the allies but the U.S government continues to support them corruption and murder rates and drug cartels and all that bullshit it all comes from the very same people that gave them that power and permission to operate if the cartels got out of hand its not because the Mexican government wanted it too its because the u.s government expected that violence to rise after el chapos capture either way the New World Order is already in play and what is happening in mexico is not a coincidence its all strategically planned out way ahead of time to benefit a nations interest and this benefits THE U.S big time with its immigration rights and everything else that will come with it if the u.s does enter .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Reading headlines to gain knowledge is dangerous.
      Keith Raniere fooled many in his 'personal development' program incl Dalai Lama.

      He went to speak to the Lebarons about his program and to recruit women to work in NY as nannies. It was on that premise a couple went. But not for long.

      The NY based group purported to be a self-help group but morphed into what the feds called a cult that sexually, physically and emotionally abused its mainly female followers.

      Delete
  30. Chivis.... Please please please get on the Joe Rogan podcast to talk about all this...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is a great idea!! Chivis you would make a great guest on Rogan’s podcast with your wealth of info and stories from living and working in Mexico and of course working on this blog.

      Give it some thought.

      Delete
    2. I never give interviews or become involved in a project, but I saw Grillo on Rogan which was my first time watching him.

      I was recently VERY tempted to join a major project, but sadly i can't.

      Delete
    3. Because you will quickly get taken out for talking about things you shouldn’t be

      Delete
    4. I completely understand you not be able to do those type of interviews. It would be a great way to spread the word to a whole bunch of other ears though.

      I too saw Grillo for the first time on Rogan. Thought it was a decent interview. Many of the things he spoke about all of us that read this blog and keep up on cartels news know about already.

      Check out the Rogan interview with Ed Calderon. It’s a good one too.

      Delete
  31. The border crossings in several places, should be shut down permanently. The Douglas AZ-Agua Prieta MX is one of them. Nothing good comes of this crossing. Crossing the border by land should be 2 types, a walk through only, possessing only what you can carry in your hands, and commercial truck routes where trucks are fully unloaded & repacked on another truck in the US (much the same way goods at Costco are fully transferred from 1 shopping cart to another at the check out station). Personal vehicle traffic needs to be prohibited all together.

    ReplyDelete
  32. wether theyre Americans, Mexicans, Martians why does it matter? what matters is that yet again an innocent family became victims, yet again a cowardly attack happens, yet again the government is failing.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Amazing how you only let the comments through that kiss your butt on your cheesy article.

    And don't put my comment through to "pretend" to everyone that you're a victim of hate mail. You forget those that were here posting freely on BB before you single handedly ruined it by destroying free speech in the comment section. YOU SUCK.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Another famous case of an American was Jose arredondo a multi millionaire from Bakersfield California he got murdered in los Cabos wheres the coverage on that!!!

    ReplyDelete
  35. Great post. Has this apathy always been part of Mexico's culture, or is it a relatively recent thing?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. absolutely not!! just examine history. It is a modern day phenomenon.

      I also want it clear that the people acquired this mindset out of self preservation.

      Now narcos are responsible for their actions of course, but narcos are being narcos because although they war against other groups they are given a pass to do so. Same with corruption.

      But even in small ways Mexicans support corruption. For example they take quid pro quo in exchange for their vote. Gifts, gift cards are given for the vote.

      97% of the people are held hostage by 3%

      Delete
    2. Understood, thanks for all you do here.

      Delete
  36. coverage from mainstream media refers to them as "Americans"

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lebaron-family-funerals-held-today-draw-thousands-after-deadly-mexico-ambush-2019-11-07-live-updates/

    ReplyDelete
  37. No apathy of the proud Mexican citizen, only fear. Guaranteed more bloodbath. Fire cannot be met with calm and wishful thinking.

    ReplyDelete
  38. The family being "more Mexican than American" should honestly have nothing to do with it. These guys executed children. They knew they were children. It would be disgusting if it was a Mexican family, but if Mexico ever wanted to be able to have the full help of America now would be the time. Sad there is too much corruption on too many high levels for them to ever get serious about stopping it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 10:32 the point it flew over your head. I was criticizing the headline in U.S. as being "Americans"

      A family immigrated to mexico over 100 years ago to escape the polygamy laws of the U.S. subsequent family members were born in Mexico as Mexican citizens, work and lived in Mx all their lives, died in Mexico, and were buried in Mexico. They are Mexicans with dual citizenship.

      y attack was primarily against the media outside mexico.
      today I actually hear on a network "funeral of the 9 americans who traveled from the U.S. and were gun-downed in Mexico.

      oh Boy

      Delete
  39. Great make-people-think article Chivis.

    I don't agree with "“the absence of rule of law is directly related to the apathy of Mexico’s people".

    Instead the ruling elite of Mexico has a (different to the ruling elite of the US) mindset/vision how they want their country to be. Mex can only get out of this mess if the ruling elite is convinced that everybody (including them) will be better off under a rule of law.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A resemblance of what American politicians are doing now. Pay to play and the immunity of such.
      Rule of Law has never favored the common people.

      Delete
  40. Mex is poor because it is corrupt and corrupt because it is poor.

    In a poor and corrupt state crime pays as long as you remain alive.

    ReplyDelete
  41. So who were the ones resposible for this attack? Anyone?

    ReplyDelete
  42. We really want to help! we love you

    ReplyDelete
  43. Please post this one - not the one from a few minutes ago. Great article and point. Sadly the economics of Mexico and economic corruption has pushed people that feel they have no other way out Of poverty and they’ve bred their children to feel this way for generations. I don’t know how this is ever going to get cleaned up as long as their is a market for drugs in the US and worldwide and illegal weapons. If only they’d start by legalizing marijuana. I thought they were so close. So many horrible deaths have happened throughout Mexico that clearly indicate a systematic problem and not isolated killings. They should be making it worldwide news. They are afraid to report. Journalist are dying. Stories they’ve reported don’t point to cartels, when yours do. As far as morality and duty to country - I think for the general Mexican citizen it seems like it’s out of their hands and if they stay out of their way, they may be ok but if they speak they could get hurt. For US citizens, they feel protected by their government and can speak out without feeling someone will kill them. Please keep trying to bring to big news outlets. AP news will respond.

    ReplyDelete
  44. "La Linea know and respect the family for their help and actions in the communities of that area." If it was not the La Linea's, then who shot them down? That is their turf and area.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That is cds turf Morón. Paredes family are from Bavispe

      Delete
  45. Article was written excellently. Though biased. How can mencho be your greatest threat? Singling out that one. And not the biggest paying cartel. With the most corridos written bout them. One the president clearly supports. To me that presidential support, is your country's greatest enemy. Imagine John F. Kennedy. If said it was inhumane, how they were treating Tookie Williams. Or mobsters like Albert Anastasia. The media would have a field day. Ain't inhumane how they treat other guys. Just inhumane how they treat that one man. And not all the others in state jail. Or all the others in mexican jails. It's inhumane how your military, had their children taken as hostages. In America we love our vets. Not so much the trigger happy cops. But definitely our service members. In Mexico their wives are hostages. And the government don't bat an eye. You did make one extremely valid point. With America being over there. That's sure to open a can of worms. Mexican politicians can't have that. Salud writer of this article.

    El Smarto

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Pues si Smarto, That is why it is an OP-ED, it is my opinion. That said, I have been a first hand witness, working with leaders [some names everyone would know and not for good reasons] the people, organizations, religious leaders etc for over a decade. Landing in one of the hottest narco spots in the country. and yes I have interacted with narcos sometimes which is interesting in of itself.

      And I have never seen a threat like Mencho because he is different. He takes on all that oppose him and even those who do not, he has no boundaries. Having a kid with dynamite wrapped around his neck witness his father being blown up minutes before he has the same fate is different. The war weaponry is accumulates is very different and could only be acquired to use against government forces or bringing down aircraft or god forbids blowing up a soccer stadium.

      The term is used loosely but from what we know it is demonstrated that Mencho is a sociopath. and his end goal is unclear, which may have nothing to do with trafficking alone.

      Paz
      I could go on and on but read my article i think titled "Is Mencho replacing Chapo" something like that.

      Delete
    2. Glad you have waken up to what keeps transpiring in Mexico, each and everyday. A major crime scene, with American citizens killed minding thier own business, shot up because the local cartels are busy claiming every block of land to be thiers.
      Time was of the ensence, to investigate and find out, the true cartel that did it. Time has went by with no results, ALMO instead of taking action it waiting for it to go to the back burner, and a year later request a panel, to investigate the matter.
      Mexico-Observer

      Delete
    3. "El smarto" not so smart or he's been in a cave for decades to not know how mencho works n what he does to move out his way anyone that doesn't agree with him INNOCENTS, WOMEN, CHILDREN,ETC...not to mention cops,leo like the 14+ that just got killed weeks back,ok now the US veterans tell us why there's not enough help, recovery services, opportunities(list goes on) for them,u will see a homeless veteran everywhere u go..u say u love them but where's the love for them???..

      Delete
    4. I just see him as flavor of the month. I've seen other cartels do ten times worse. It's all on the interwebs to see. To me they're all equals in terror. No one is worse than the other groups. Wouldn't want to be in either's hands. It's just how amlo defends his cartel. And everyone attacks CJNG. Like all the other cartels ain't as mean. The government goes after only him. Mencho's son is still in prison right? Meanwhile amlo meets his boy's mother. Let's his son go too. And is saying his treatment is inhumane. And is clearly protecting his boy's crew. While hunting down all of his enemies. I got a serious question too. When Benjamin went to get Chapo, why were there police men waiting for him? That corruption is the greatest threat. Citizens cannot rely on cops. And they're not allowed protect their lives. Because the bad guys have firearms. And the citizens are not allowed to. The government clearly wants it that way. And is clearly bought by the cartels. And which cartel does amlo defend most? Come on borderland beat for real? May I say thank you for the reply. And you guys do a public service. Mainstream media don't cover these things. Unless it's a group of white people.
      @7:03

      @7:50
      I swear you sound like that same dude, who always says that homeless vets thing. You seriously must be trump. That is some shite that he would say. And this is a site he would come to. When he is not ranting on Twitter. To see if he had the brown vote. Where the heck are these homeless vets? Try not being a vet and homeless. And no one gives a crap about you. You don't have someone like you ranting. Yeah that's what I thought. There's a lot of them too. Hungry regular people. Guess you forgot to mention them. Guess they don't matter much to you.

      Delete
  46. Anybody who brings up interesting factoids about the family is a shill for the cartels? That's a stretch, veering perilously close to tabloid journalism.

    Los Perseguidos Veintiocho

    ReplyDelete
  47. This site needs to have clear standards for commentary. Chivis has stated previously that comments that are overly-long or include all caps will not be posted. Chivis should also make a disclaimer that comments that she personally disagrees with will not be posted.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you are correct about the all caps. However I have discovered that some devices only appear in caps when blogging comments.

      I agree with you. if you see something and want to have me take a look just send a comment in or email me..

      Delete
    2. Yes and watch out for the busloads of weirdos that come in to belittle people in here.

      Delete
  48. @Chivis: post the negative comments. Bad ideas should be put out in the open so that they can be exposed by the community as bad ideas.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I will----sorry I was gone most of the afternoon yesterday...I am just catching up

      Delete
  49. Excellent op-Ed...! Loved it, well written and you made some great points. Keep up the great work! I have been reading borderland beat since 2009 and you guys do a great job!

    ReplyDelete
  50. excellent read. from the highlands.

    ReplyDelete
  51. HEADS UP: Personal attacks in comments will assure it won't get posted. If you can't live by that standards....leave BB and go elsewhere.

    ReplyDelete
  52. I was a guest on a talk show last night and that was exactly the points I was making. I was born in Mexico, live in the US but have dual citizenship. They live in Mexico and have been for a long time, and some of their kids don't even speak English. People on both sides of the border are getting all wrong, but I feel on both sides they make the narrative fit their agenda. True!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Exactly! One fool, sent in a comment that "they aren't really Mexican" By that theory, all of the descendants of my family, after our great grandparents came from Jalisco, are "not really American" . I would have posted it if not for the additional racist comments the fool added to his already woeful comment....

      I guess I just wanted to say something about how "everyone is getting it wrong"

      and today? I heard a newscaster say "Today funerals for the 9 AMERICANS killed by mexican cartels after driving to Mexico from Arizona"

      Que?

      Born in Mexico----lived in Mexico all their lives----died in Mexico----and buried in Mexico

      Delete
    2. The LeBarons family seem to be real good people. They should be given the proper recognition and respect. They are good hard working people based on what I have read about them. And yes they are Mexican for what I can see.

      Delete
  53. All the people who say that Mexico should let the USA military fight the drug cartels should read the Mexican constitution. It is ridiculous when you people say Mexico won’t let the USA in because the web of corruption. Mexico has capture and deliver hundreds of criminals to the USA at their request. And the majority of people of law enforcement killed on this fight are Mexican.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes in other words you and many others want killings to continue, while blaming the US for not helping.

      Delete
  54. I think one question on most American minds and it's probably the wrong question but what were they doing with their kids and no men in a place where this could happen, should they have known better? As most Americans I would never ever put myself let alone any children in a situation where being caught in a massacre is a distinct possibility. I know the relative safety of my country is a luxury and I'm grateful for it, I wish more of us didn't have such a problem with Mexicans understandably fleeing a nearly failed state. It's too bad there isn't more we could do for a neighbor and ally, so until a corrupt Mexican government will ask for help or an American politician will make a concerted effort to do something more than separate families at borders we're left to simply watch, in some cases emphathize, and become morbidly fascinated with the macabre sights coming from Mexico. It's too bad that most of the Mexican populus is truly too disillusioned to hope for better, but I don't blame them.

    ReplyDelete
  55. A few days after the attack and no one gives a fuck anymore.

    ReplyDelete
  56. It is really sad that people don’t admit that LeBaron family are both. Mexican and U.S citizens. They have been here in Mexico for years. In fact I love it when I hear that U.S citizens retire to live in Mexico. Mexicans love other nationalities when they come over to our country. All are welcome.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Trump sending military to Mexico will make thing worst, did United States make a difference in Afghanistan, have they eradicated they heroin trade in Afghanistan ����,, NO,, they just made the taliban stronger and United States killed thousands of innocent children and women ,,, that is what United States ���� want for Mexico, American don’t care about Mexico , trump is only interested in putting Mexico in debt , if Americans really cared to make a change the should stop consuming drugs and exporting guns.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Taliban haven't gotten stronger, bro. They have less influence than they did before.

      Delete
  58. Chivis,
    I don’t write this lightly, you referred to positive comments about them. Let tell you that the opinion on wether the LeBaron’s are good people or not depends on the person. My family hasn’t had a problem with them because while not mormon they’re of the same social class. Rich men do a lot of bad things to make sure they stay rich, i know what rich men are, I’ve heard their stories, I’ve heard the stories of how the finally managed to get what they wanted, their blood runs through my veins. I hope you’re understanding where I’m going with this. They hide behind a “good name”. Many of the people in and of the surroundings feel very badly for the children, this includes my family, members of which live in that town and attended the funeral however you will not see their facebook pictures changed to mourning for LeBaron. Why? Because they know who they truly are. But I’ll remind you once again that it truly depends on who your speaking with.

    ReplyDelete

  59. Hey Chivis. I've been reading bb since 2011. Please don't overwhelm yourself with all the newbie, know it all millennials that take over everything.They are exhausting.
    They don't know shit.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Any attempt at introducing the American military into Mexico will solidify the Mexican people with the Narcos. Don't think any differently. Mexico's problems are easy to solve in theory, impossible in reality.

    1) Death penalty for corrupt politicians. Start there. Not a single Mexican president left the office poorer than he came in. Fox is even living in America!

    2) Economic solutions and employment would stop the low hanging fruit from killing people for 3500 pesos.

    3) More guns were exported under Obama than Trump ever did or will do. Guns are not the problem, it is the people using them. Stop the violence and you won't need guns. This requires legislation and the death penalty--and wide spread support for it. You cannot simply put these people in prison and let them out 7 years later to continue the cycle.

    4) Force a solution. Stop all travel to Mexico, no tourism. I have family in Sinaloa and they were safe under Chapo. They are not now. They believe AMLO will not solve this, only make it worse. $$$ speak.

    5) Finally, the Mexican people must change and not accept corruption as a way of life. My cousin paid off an inspector for his house for $300 American. He never came back. He currently pays off a Mexican customs official 1k a month to allow his product to be imported without problems. This is roughly a 10% tax on it. His best friend owns two businesses and makes payments to an assessor twice a year to the tune of over 2k. Extortion is real in Mexico.

    ReplyDelete

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