Reporting on the Mexican Cartel Drug War

Self-Defense Groups Will Become Institutionalized

Monday, January 27, 2014 |


Agreement for the Federal Security Assistance of Michoacán
January 27, 2014—The Self-Defense Groups that emerged in Michoacán signed an agreement today along with the federal and state government that will transform them into elements of the Rural Defense Corps, an existing organization under the control of the military.  Rurales, groups of armed volunteers who were once used to keep peace in rural areas when security forces were unavailable, once existed between 1861 and 1914, during Mexico’s turbulent 19th century. 
 
Group of Rurarles in 1922

The signing achieved under the Agreement for the Federal Security Assistance of Michoacán (Acuerdo para el Apoyo Federal a la Seguridad de Michoacán), states that the government of the Republic and the state of Michoacán came to a “conviction of rebuilding peace and public order”.  The Self-Defense Groups also agreed to provide a list of all of its members.
Alfredo Castillo Cervantes
Alfredo Castillo Cervantes, commissioner for the security and integral development of Michoacán, said that the agreement, although it’s a first step, is critical in fulfilling the security strategy in the state.

Apart from Castillo Cervantes, Michoacán’s Governor Fausto Vallejo Figueroa and along with representatives from communities such as Churumuco de Morelos, Nueva Italia de Ruíz, La Huacana, Parácuaro, Tancítaro, Cualcomán de Vázquez Pallares, Aquila and Coahuayana de Hidalgo were present.
 
María Elena Morera de Galindo
Also, the signing was witnessed by the president of Causa en Común (Common Cause) María Elena Morera de Galindo and the General Commissioner of the Federal Police, Enrique Galindo Ceballos.

Enrique Galindo Ceballos
Here are the eight points of the agreement reached between the governments and the Self-Defense Groups:


1.         The Self-Defense Groups will be institutionalized by joining the Rural Defense Corps.  The leaders of the Self-Defense Groups will present a list of all the names of its members, which will be validated with the formation of the respective documents, controlled by the SEDENA (Secretariat of National Defense).  These bodies will be temporary and under the control of the authority pursuant of the applicable provisions.

2.         For the protection of their communities, members of the Self-Defense Groups may form part of the Municipal Police provided they can complete the requirements of the law and have the joint signature of the City Council to be proposed for a membership of said police force.

3.         The Self-Defense Groups have an obligation to register the weapons they currently posses to the SEDENA.  In turn, the SEDENA must agree to provide them with the necessary tools for communication, transportation, and operation.

4.         It is agreed that municipalities with conflict will conduct an audit of the use of public resources in accordance with applicable laws.

5.         The rotation of Federal and Local Prosecutors will be established as well as the implementation of mobile prosecutor units.

6.         The Commission of the Safety and Comprehensive Development of Michoacán will be committed in maintaining constant communication with municipal authorities in the area to offer support pursuant to the authority of said Commission.

7.         The necessary arrangements will be made in the state of Michoacán, without having to leave the state, for the cases of the people who were arrested for carrying a gun and for those who are on bail pending trial. 

8.         In the case of the municipal and state public officials who have criminal or administrative sanctions, and that are fully proven, will have the full extent of the law applied to them.


Source:  Animal Politico

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105 Borderland Beat Comments:

Anonymous said...

Good first step..Now for the results.

Anonymous said...

we got sold out! death to the comunitarios

Anonymous said...

Good news for every Mexican, I hope this spreads throughout Mexico, viva Mexico cabrones !!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Once again the government wins the AD have been contained from spreading outside of michoacan

Anonymous said...

did we forget that the rurales were the most abusive police force in mexico? Read Barborous Mexico it lays out all the brutality they did under orders from porfirio diaz. they were disbanded after 1914 for a reason, they were brutal. they would kill men and stay in their houses and rape their wives and daughters and take their sons as new recruits. They are brutal and not to be trusted. the Mexican government is not to be trusted if this is what the autodefensas are going to be then long live los Caballeros Templarios. Un bien por conocer es peor que el malo por conocido. Ya valio madre.

Anonymous said...

its over. any hope for peace, and justice, and democracy is dead. long live brutality, corruption, and impunity. we were had. sorry chivis. you were wrong. these are not good times ahead for the Mexican people.

Anonymous said...

It's a start. The beginning of a new era. More rural communities should have " rurales " . Hope it works out for everyone.

Anonymous said...

Identify members and register weapons- a recipe for crushing the community police.

Anonymous said...

Why do i get the sense that they just signed a deal with the devil?

Anonymous said...

I hope this is the beginning to an end.

Jack Hawkins said...

Legitimacy ...

. . . It smells like . . .

Victory!

One will roll into another ... if the boys keep on keepin' on!

Anonymous said...

Fuckn PRI better keep it's promises or else it's legit civil war against the political crooks. AD leadership don't let your guard down

Trey Bostic said...

Hmmm, so the government is going to provide the Corps with vehicles and communication devices, lets see how it goes, im eager to see their newly government toys, if it goes well this should be the beginning of the end for malicious cartels...Zetas, Caballeros Templarios, its sad it took alot of bloodshed for this to happen

tu sancho said...

first, this sounds like some sort of trap. being trapped by the bureaucracy. they have total freedom now because they are outside of the law. once the become rurales the corruption begins.

and what about this??? "7. The necessary arrangements will be made in the state of Michoacán, without having to leave the state, for the cases of the people who were arrested for carrying a gun and for those who are on bail pending trial." Is this the bunch that was earlier arrested? Are they being returned to Michoacan?

The whole thing smells.

Feynman said...

3 questions for anyone who's interested:

1) Is there any hidden motive here? For example, does the military just want to get all the vigilantes out in the open and identify them so they can disband them? Or is this purely in the interest of the community?

2) How do you predict this will work out? (guess that depends on your answer to #1)

3) Should the military pay any of them?

Feynman

tu sancho said...

oh yeah, by the way, what happened to EPN's plans to have and effective national police force, some sort of gendarme, to combat crime. how's that plan working out???

Anonymous said...

This all for the Government to gain control again ! what a shame

Chivis said...

Smart Feyman...exactly what people are saying. They were within their constitutional right to exist, now they will be working for the government more than self governing. Giving a list of each member and weapon is very dangerous. EPN says they will have to be certified and "pass" tests.

Anonymous said...

The PCs shouldn't be deputized, shouldn't have to register themselves, and shouldn't have to register their arms. What you get with this agreement with the federal and state govt.s is an unarmed civilian populace in Tierra Caliente -- that was the problem to begin with. Only the organized criminals had guns before the formation of the ADs; thus, the CTs were terrorizing the populace because only they had guns. The govt. will have the names of all the people with guns. At any moment they can renege on the agreement, and when they see fit, inorder to confiscate their weapons and detain the ADs. The ADs have yet to enter Apatzingan or Uruapan, the main urban centers of Tierra Caliente. Unless somebody can tell me otherwise, the CTs still run those cities while the ADs are pulling-back. If you ask me something about this agreement is not sounding right.

Anonymous said...

This is terrible news. Checkmate for the government. Hard to believe that they would all go along with being co-opted by the very forces who left them vulnerable for the past 10 years.

Anonymous said...

I guess now the cartels are going to operate under the disguise of being a group of the rurales.

Jack Hawkins said...

Yep, when a group of armed men are tasked with enforcing the law, a list of who those men are will be required.

Now whether or not their actions replicate those of the rurales of the past, who knows? But if the faceless men behind masks can be trusted now, why not trust the same men when they are behind a badge, rather than a mask?

It's the same man.

The Federals must have made it plain, get on the bus, or be thrown under it.

The status que was going to end, the Army had already fired on the AD, one time, and killed more people than in any single gun fight the AD has had with the CT.

You guys report it, read it, comment upon it, but the relevance of the content, seems to slide on by. When the 'God Father' of Sinola offers an alliance, Doc Mireles and the fellas can turn it down.

When Pena offers an alliance, they HAVE to take it, or lose what they have gained.

Doc Mireles, Hilpo Mora and the communities of the Tierra Caliente have won, and you guys refuse to accept it.

Feynman said...

Thanks Chivis. You worded it well, that they'll now be working for the government. Could work out well, or not so well...unpredictable at this point.
Another thing though, if I were the CT I would see this as a great opportunity to bride/intimidate the authorities in charge of screening the vigilantes so that they would let my crew and me carry weapons with impunity. Institutionalizing vigilante groups means also institutionalizing CT groups posing as vigilantes, which are definitely a thing.

Feynman

ml said...

I DONT SEE anything in this document that serves the best interest of the people of Michoacan or the auto defense forces.

I can read into this that the rurales can be held accountable for the slightest breach of the agreement, while it is business as usual for the State and Federal Side.

Over the last several months I've developed a lot of respect for Avacodo Farmers (soft on the outside with a hard nut on the inside) but they should not be negotiating away their independence and the future of their children.

I am mortified at how simple logic and common sense has been defeated so easily in this case.

Dare I say these people have written their own dreadful outcome to this story. How can anyone support them now.

Anonymous said...

--enrique galindo ceballos,general commissioner of the federal police...
will have to check his record,all federal police have very bad records,and this guy should be no exception.
--the auto defensas do not need to disband,and they should commission their own police officers and rurales,who should answer to AD, not to a fake army deviod of patriotism and competence,that did not achieve any victory for them,ever.
--the municipal councilmen could not control criminals, or their police or mayors,why do they get to approve anything?
--the AD should start the process of installing their own government,on the way to getting rid of the old government that sold them out, (transicion)
--there should be no outsider dictating the conditions or new laws,maybe in a spirit of cooperation,advice and supervision,but under no circumstances,"authority".
-- all military ranks that could never do anything about the gangsters,in spite of their military abilities and resourcesshould leave the state immediately.
-- giving names of anybody to the government,what an idle and dangerous proposition,all the fucking federal government needs is get their taxes paid faithfully and let the people govern themselves, something they know very little about,what is needed is a list of all the corrupt,and their leaders...
AD will do what is best for them, wisely or not, under the circumstances,but i hope disbanding and surrendering their weapons is not among the options, remember general Goroztieta and Sandino,killed the monent they surrendered and gave up their weapons, by the treacherous governments they had on the ropes,50 years after sandino the nicaraguans are still hoping against hope for some social justice,at least to be left alone with their misery,without the rich trying to save them by killing their arses to send them to heaven,,,80+ years after general goroztieta, michoacan jalisco guerrero and all of mexico are still waiting for a justice that will not come, not from the federal government or its plenipotentiary envoys...

Anonymous said...

Templario scumbags will do anything to discredit the Auto defensas, lets face it you will be exterminated like the rats that you are!!!

Anonymous said...

No surprise that the first order of business is to provide a list of all communitarios to the govt. This will be used over time as a resource to identify and eliminate. This agreement will successfully destroy the autodefensas momentum and prevent it spreading outside of Michoacán.
The problem has, and will continue to be, one of corruption inside the highest levels of the Mexican government. The problem is that despite overwhelming manpower and resources, the defense forces have not been deployed and\or utilized as they should to keep the people of Michoacán protected. The problem is corruption, and this agreement will do little to fix that problem...

Anonymous said...

WOW, Only in Mexico. Lets see we are fighting Government corruption that allows the bad guys to run free, so lets become a part of the corrupt government and lets give them all are names and a list of our guns. Even the Nazi's weren't that good at this game.

Anonymous said...

Reject it! Don't give your names or arms!

Anonymous said...

Not a big deal, just start self defense group number 2, that works with number 1

Anonymous said...

God Bless Mexico maybe she will go back to the people

Anonymous said...

Heyy chivis los rurales used to be called la defensa my abuelo.belonged to them rip

Anonymous said...

Well it seems the CT is the reincarnated rurales ... And like them you'll be "disbanded". BTW, its 2014 not 1914. Different century, different people.

Anonymous said...

People please understand this movement is against the cartels not the federal gov this is not a revolution demmit , hopefully they get pay for it not like the rurals that they were not pay for it this could be the beginning of the end of the cartels by establishing this metod all over mexico.

Anonymous said...

Jack Hawkins
"Doc Mireles, Hilpo Mora and the communities of the Tierra Caliente have won, and you guys refuse to accept it"
Have won what?The main Templarios are still calling the shots with their"boys"
Strange that the silly old fool El Tio is the only one caught.Will the rest of the crime lords be routed out,,also strange about Apatzingán,La Puta openly walking around.I hope the AD haven't given all their members names to the very government that caused them to arm in the first place.They have now contained the spreading of this movement,maybe cynical,but with politicians like those in Mexico?Every country has corrupt politicos,but Mexicos are a whole different level.

Anonymous said...

Everyone think about this.The cartels and crime has run rampant for years,this AD is barely a year old yet the government act quickly to contain the spread of this entity.The entity that is on the whole law abiding.Where is the action on cartels?This stinks of clever strategy by the government.

Anonymous said...

January 28, 2014 at 12:04 AM
"--the AD should start the process of installing their own government,on the way to getting rid of the old government that sold them out, (transicion) "
Right on brother,how can you deal with the devil who sold you in the first place.I would love to hear what the government are saying in private?The status quo and equilibrium has been restored to the oligarch rich and their satraps.....What revolution,what uprising?

Anonymous said...

WOW OUT OF THE 2 ENEMIES THE COMUNITARIOS HAD WHICH WAS THE TEMPLARIOS AND THE GOVERNMENT THEY PACTED WITH THE WORST ONE. HAHAHA

TEMPLARIOS WAS LIKE A BRANCH OF THE PRI GOV.

Anonymous said...

Autodefensas will now be part of the gov't. So now when Michoacán is fully cleansed of CT and living in relative peace and harmony, EPN can swoop in and take all the credit for being so brave and joining with the communitarios to build a safer, stronger Mexico.

Anonymous said...

So the drug war is now officially putting them back to the 19th century. Talk about progressive.

Anonymous said...

wow, the old photo of Mexican Rurales
looks so COOOOOL.

Jack Hawkins said...

If they don't join 'em, they will be targeted by 'em.

As Chivis mentioned, when Doctor Mireles left the hospital, you could see the 'fear' in his face.

Doctor Mireles was not afraid of the CT, he was not afraid of his own mortality.
What was he told, while in the hospital, that made him afraid?

Who could instill fear in the man, what threat would move him?

The AD is either with the Government, or against the Government.
Read any of the stated goals, by Mireles or Mora, revolution was never one of them.

Safety and security of the community, freedom from 'Organized Crime' top the list. Not a reordering of the society, nor the reorganization of neo-liberal economic structures.

Nope, the AD was non-political, non-sectarian, it vocalized the people's demand for 'Law & Order' and now the Federals have tasked the Autonomous Communities with providing just that.

'Law & Order'

Be careful what you wish for, it is often said, you just may get it.

Anonymous said...

Its a step on a huge road. A sign of peace on a least one state of mexico. Hopefully many more states will step up. And hope the AD keep the same path of justice. Look out for many more AD on the south states of mexico. Notrh no hope.!

Anonymous said...

yeah, this still does not stop the corruption that comes down fro the top. what happened to all the alcaldes, police, governors whom are knows colaborators of orgonized crime? how come there is no special federeal task force to investigate, charge, prosecute, and seized all assets of such corrupt officials. If I was governor of michoacan, I would give immunity to all members of cartels that gave up info on public officials. The cleaning has to start at the top with allpublic employees.

tu sancho said...

anonymous @ January 27, 2014 at 9:41 PM -- I agree about what is written in Barbarous Mexico, which I think should be read by all here. But... this is now and I think the move by the government was one of how to co-opt the ADs and bring them under some semblance of control. On the other hand, I think the core of the rurales is different than under Diaz. In this case it is a people's uprising. Then, it was hiring brutes to control the population. The two periods and forms of rurales are fundamentally different. IMHO.

Anonymous said...

WTF! I'm telling you this is a trap. Not good news to fight corruption by joining the corruption.

tu sancho said...

I read somewhere, and can't find the source at the moment, that there is a government security strategy to round up the ADs. It was a quote from a federal official. It would be a three step process... 1. Stand by and watch the ADs take on the cartels, while giving them benign support. 2. federalize or otherwise give the ADs quasi-legitimacy as security forces. 3. Round them up and prosecute them.

It seems that process is being carried out.

Anonymous said...

My grandfather and great grandfather were rurales in Michoacan back in the day. We still have their old guns down there. Hopefully they will see action again soon after about 100 years.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like government just wants to keep control, by them being in control the government will know every move. They will be able to warn the criminals, ahead of time so they can get out of dodge. Mexico needs a total rebuild of the system, from the president on down. To many people are suffering.

Anonymous said...

REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO PANCHO VILLA WHEN HE LAID DOWN HIS WEAPONS,!!! HE WAS CONVENIENTLY MURDERED BY THE GOVERNMENT! !!!

Anonymous said...

The RICH want to keep everyone under oppression! !!! Don't fall into there trap that they want to help, they just don't want to be ousted from control! !! Good for the people for standing up!!! The abuse needs to stop!!!

tu sancho said...

then there is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EveWsBbBev4 ADs locked up already.

racketmensch said...

As others have said here - this is likely a trap. The big news up here in gringoland is the secret agreement of cooperation between Sinaloa and US government; they share info on other cartels in exchange for Most Favored Smuggler status and weapons. US and Mexican governments are just gangs with badges and probably less honor than Zetas. God bless and protect the Mexican people (and soon the Anglos, too) from these lying bastards. I think you would be better off to make deals with the druggies than that bunch in the photos.

Anonymous said...

To kill the snake you have to cut off the head, and in this case its the government. There will never be peace until you rid the government of corruption

tu sancho said...

jajaja @ January 28, 2014 at 9:46 AM

"If I was governor of michoacan, I would give immunity to all members of cartels that gave up info on public officials." THE GOVENOR is the most corrupt of the bunch. That is one of the problems. The entire government structure of Michoacan needs to be investigated and prosecuted. Top to bottom. Governor down to transitos and the clerks that approve building permits. puros perros.

Anonymous said...

We all know mexican organizations don't become corrupted, right guys?
Right?

Anonymous said...

NO!!!! Do not share names with the government!!! They will do to them what they did to the Left during the "Mexican Dirty War" of the 70's. In fact, a new Dirty War is underway.

Anonymous said...

Good for Mexico, but registering fire arms is a terrible idea. The only protection for individuals is ultimately with those individuals, not the state. The vigilantes have demonstrated this.

Anonymous said...

@ tu sancho. Things are not too different today from 100 years ago in Mexico. Mexican power today emanates from the same system used by Diaz over 100 years ago. Nothing has changed, everything remains the same. So knowing how the Mexican government is and knowing how it operates I think it is ignorant to expect the "Rurales" system to be any different than what it was 100 years ago. Even if the current rurales leaders are good, there is no guarantee that any successor would be the same way. Yes, maybe they would be good today because their core is good. But, people die and people get replaced. And if it is being controlled by the Mexican government it's tainted. Nobody in the mexican government does anything that the mexican government doesn't want it to do.

Anonymous said...

i read the history of the rurales in "Barbarous Mexico". Thanks Sancho and anon 9:41 for opening my eyes. Mexico is evil. Here's the piece.

The rurales are mounted police usually selected from the criminal classes, well equipped and comparatively well paid, whose energies have been turned to robbing and killing for the government. There are federal rurales and state rurales, the total of the two running somewhere between 7,000 and 9,000. They are divided among the various states in about an equal proportion to the population, but are utilized most in the rural districts. The rurales are the special rough riders of the jefe politicos and they are given almost unlimited powers to kill at their own discretion. Investigation of wanton killings by rurales working singly or in squads is almost never made and the victim must stand well indeed with the government before punishment is meted out to the murderer.

Anonymous said...

How in the world can you cry Victory. The Mexican politicians and army have assisted the cartels in exchange of profit. Now the government has a change of heart and has grown a moral conscious to help instead of assisting maniac killers. I believe a setup is in order corruption of Mexico will not change, CIA continue your assistance of the warriors w/o Mexican assitance

Anonymous said...

I have a bad feeling bout this. The PC leaders appear to be smart. Why would they turn in their members names to a govt that is unclean. Surely some of the officials will be on the cartel payroll. Why would they seek to become part of the institutions that have betrayed their communitirles in the past. If they will now be under the military doesnt that make them accountable to military laws and w ill have to stand down wben the order is given. Everything I read benefits the govt in fhat theg are bringing the comunitarios under control. I see nothing that would benefit the PC to accomplish their main goal. Stuff doesnt add up. Were Mireles and Mora present at the signing.of this agreement?

Anonymous said...

I dont know about this one, it smells like sheet. Dont like the part about they have to report to the Mex military, Isn't some of the Mex military working for the some of the cartels.

Anonymous said...

This is horrible news. Una jugada sucio.

Anonymous said...

Didn't the self defence groups form in the first place not just because there were criminals harassing them, but because the government wasn't doing anything about it? So now the government is trying to institutionalize them?
If the government wants to help the autodefensas, why doesn't it just do the job that the LACK of created the autodefensas in the first place??

Chivis said...

@ 4:28 who asked "was More and Mireles at the signing.

More was indeed there. Dr Mireles was going but was not able to. People do not realize he was critically injured with complications of diabetes.

He emailed me this AM that he has just entered 4 weeks of what he calls "intermediary" therapy.

Chivis said...

tu Sancho

there are 50 altogether still locked up. I would have thought AD would have insisted their release until trial. Human rights commissions in Mex and EU are studying each case.

But this truly is a double edge sword and one I am afraid will not end well

Anonymous said...

It's over. I thought that these groups were trying to fight the criminals, not join them? By doing anything with that government your basically joining the major crime cartel in Mexico, I think that this is the biggest mistake they could ever make. The people need to do just what the people of the Ukraine have done and that's get those corrupt bastards out of their government and on trial and in prison for crimes against the population.

Anonymous said...

This is just stupid. These self-defense group will turn into another corrupt organization supported the government. These guys will soon protect these cartels and another bitch in Mexico will be born. Therefore, it's in the blood of 'many' Mexicans to keep this cycle of corruption going. That is why I no longer feel anything for the people of Mexico. I have given up my support for the good Mexicans. The only way for Mexicans to get their country back is to wipe the slate clean with their dirty government.

Anonymous said...

Because greed is the mother of all fuck ups! Money is like taste of blood. Once they have tasted it, there is no going back. Therefore, the innocent people (if there are any), are doomed!

Anonymous said...

Well your grandfather and great grandfather are probably rolling in their graves!

Anonymous said...

You are totally right!

Anonymous said...

Commonsense that most of these people commenting here don't know.

Anonymous said...

the government could assist in the administration of the state, collect taxes,but under no excuse should any federal government envoys be considered "authorities".
enrique galindo ceballos should leave his medals at the doorstep, the "federal police" is not investigating the crimes of genaro garcia luna and his criminal associates,kidnappers,murderers,torturers,extortionists,experts on dissapearing people and fabricating false charges to imprison innocent persons that confessed and implicated others under duress and torture.
Enrique Galindo Ceballos, "general",i wonder how you got your medals,
and how you end up chief,and being such an accomplished militar,with a long career of attending seminars all over the world,there is not a record of your military life,maybe we will see it later, having your wife present, do not lend much credibility to your present campaign,maybe if she would talk to the people the goverment has left down and behind,to the people whose family got murdered and killed by the army.
nobody is explaining why the great military men in charge of the army on the michoacan plazas have failed to conduct at least one successful victory against the ct or la familia,or los zetas when they were there.
when is your incompetent and corrupt "army" going to leave michoacan,they do not have a right to keep faking it.
" ...yo miedo a ti no te tengo, ni respeto tus honores,
la patria te los ha dado por diferentes razones..."
Jose de Molina, cantante y compositor mexicano,revolucionario, asesinado por el gobierno mexicano. youtube,google

Anonymous said...

@ Chivis
"These bodies will be temporary and under the control of the authority pursuant of the applicable provisions." The Auto Defensas are ceding power to a corrupt govt that has done little for them in the past and that just recently tried to disarm and killed a few of its members. I hope they have some kind of contingency plan in place in the event that they are betrayed yet again.

Anonymous said...

Hey chivis my granfather was a member of a rural armed group called la defensa , the defense . This group was probably a group of rurales but they were not assholes as some people say they were there to defend themselves and the towns from the reveldes or rebels thay my granfather rip used to call them the bad guys

Anonymous said...

I really agree with you. Giving the names of their members to the government. Bad idea!

Anonymous said...

Its really just more of the same with a slight twist...basically it'll go nowhere I dont seriously think institutionalized anarchy will work but thats how far its gone.Its just an appeasement tactic they're using because their plate is a little full.I applaud the courage of the citizens but when this is the state of your country it is very troubling and an abberant display of government rule being almost completely perverted .

Anonymous said...

No one has less honor than a zeta...child murdering henchmen of satan.

Anonymous said...

Because government does not accept responsibility for its failures or stupidity...they fear a loss of credibility.

Anonymous said...

Right on ...

Anonymous said...

Once you register any weapons and give your information to them your fucked cuz they well own your weapons and if you don't fallow there rules you well be locked up killed or whatever they'll do the cartels Gana have that last laugh its all messed up .

Anonymous said...

Maybe but at least it gives some legitimacy!

Anonymous said...

Now they just have to keeps their ranks clean of people with dirt.

Anonymous said...

There are two ways to make changes 1. Total Revolution and overthrow 2. From within government. I also don't particularly like the idea but it's the best option. Change has to happen and there has to be a legit way to keep this movement honest. This movement needs to continue being organized at the local level, and keep unknown outsiders at a distance!

Anonymous said...

Good questions! It obvious any government would want some control versus no control. I think if these groups stick together and each protect their own communities without corruption, there should be no reason for government to disband these rurales. Governments just want want no problems and taxes. They will just accept them but if these groups get hijacked by criminals looking to exploit this movement. Then we this whole situation will just repeat itself in the future. Lets pray to God that the good people of Michuacan who have risked their lives can finally protect themselves from corruption.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you! If anybody is going to maintain peace, enforce the laws, and keep coruption out wouldn't you want the people who the locals support ( The Auto Defensas) as representatives of the government.

Anonymous said...

Good comments!

Anonymous said...

Lets hope so!

Anonymous said...

Theres just one problem with what you just stated. THE GOVERNOR OF MICHUACAN IS THE BIGGEST CORUPT OFFICIAL IN MICHUACAN!!!!! I'm waiting for people in government to start exposing each others corrution. It's only a matter of time hopefully. If nobody gets criminally prosecuted in Mexican government. Then I guess La Mordida is so deeply ingrained in the Mexican political system that its expected at all levels of society, especially at the top.

Anonymous said...

It may be a trap, but the government had to save face. All of Mexico and the world is watching. The Auto Defensas have the popular support of the local people, Mexico, and the world. Now if they can maintain order and keep corruption out of their local communities. Then they have achieved what they set out to do. In the big picture we would love to see a Mexico free of corruption. Hopefully the auto defensas movement gets replicated all over Mexico.

Anonymous said...

Let them try. If they do that they will just instigate revolution. When The military killed a few innocent unarmed auto defensas. People all over Mexico where really upset and thought this was going to be the beginning of a revolution. Remember the only reason the defensas started up was to free themselves of the cartel scum. So why would Mexican government seem to be so protective of the Templarios? What is it that the government has to hide?

Anonymous said...

Completely different peopleand different times. It's too bad the name " Rurales" was chosen considering the history. Maybe that was the whole purpose of government, to get the Auto Defensas to accept the title "Rurales". Then when one Rural makes a mistake or they are infiltrated by shady individuals. That will be the perfect excuse for government to discredit them, take away their weapons and dispand them. Then it business as usual, back to La Mordida. They should have just kept their title of "Auto Defensas".

Anonymous said...

Yup!

Anonymous said...

Are you stating that there are 50 alleged auto defensas locked up.

Anonymous said...

For a complex of reasons from my own experiences and impressions I've gotten from reading the instructive commentaries of BB posters, I conclude that these "early" attempts to do things right will utterly fail!

Why?

1. Simply because the measures DO NOT address root causes that engendered the narco-cartels in the first place... among these causes are poverty, corruption, fatalistic religious culture and racism that is rooted in historic slavery by oligarchic and corrupt ruling classes.

2. The measures are also bound to fail because they include letting the "wolves into the hen house" to conduct affairs in "conventional" Parliamentary Rules ways that sound good on paper but are blind to the wolf's machinations. Combined with this Parliamentarian approach is the tendency to be impractical to do by the common people who will have to implement, and pay the costs of measures as well as those of failure.

What does "failure" cause?

Some "good" and "bad" effects.

Possible Good" In stable and healthy societies with resources and time to spare, some possible good effect are that "failure" will cause people to correct the things that were found wrong... kind of RD toward a better world. Mexico is not a stable or healthy society.... nor does Parliamentary institutions appear to work in this pseudo-democracy.... better called a racist oligarchy.

Possible "bad" effects of failure.

Anger, depression, hopelessness, bitterness, and a complex of other emotions might ensue from failure.

Anger: The people who crafted the measures will be defined by such epithets as: Liars, fools, subversives, stupid, idealistic, impractical....Or worse, some might be suspected or discovered to be collaborators with oppressive behind the scenes forces ... or "puppet masters".

Depression and hopelessness: These mood disorders will become manifest in people who worked for better and then experienced failure. Their hard work and hopes dashed they may become cynical, bitter, apathetic, or angry.

So what?

I see great dangers for Mexico "if" the masses of Mexicans do not see corrections in the things they already know are wrong: corruption, and various kinds of oppression (e.g. tmedia, political parties, military, judicial, legislative, schools, etc).

What to do:
1. Avoid instituting measure that are impractical, poorly thought out, or devised by people who may not fully appreciate the problem.

2. Find ways of gathering people to identify the problems in realistic terms. Different regions and different kinds of people will see the problems differently... recognizing this early on might avoid later conflicts because seldom does "one size fits all".

3. The gathered people must be sanctioned and trusted by the "people" to do their "honest" best. They must be of good moral character, patriotic, and realistic. They must be "of" the people and "for" the people.

4. The gathered people must work in total safety... free of coercive forces or influences that are subversive.

Finally, unless all the above is not done in all endeavors meant to solve the many interrelated problems in Mexico, failure is assured.... And this failure may ultimately erupt into a fearsome and bloody revolution like the world has never seen before.

Mexico-Watcher

Anonymous said...

Anyone notice,,shit,,the Rurales are wearing skinny jeans man?

Chivis said...

@10:26
Yes, between 50 and 60, I can't recall the exact number. They have been imprisoned and treated horribly for a few months. The Human rights commission acknowledged this and is investigating case by case. But subsequently this agreement was enacted.

Chivis said...

@8:20
exactly what the leaders are saying. It became a problem they needed help with, infiltration of "dirt" and this way each member must be vetted. So that is one bright spot...it is not all bad, BUT is it worth it? I don't know, 2 weeks ago the devil, I mean the government, was firing on and killing citizens.

This is what Chong always wanted. If one goes back a couple of months he began stating if they want to become police they need to join a federal entity.

Anonymous said...

"all politics is local"... said a great american politician and horse trader.
the problem with horse trading is that the expediency allow for the degradation of loftier goals, and the advancement of corruption's encroachment,until one day you find that no mater what gets done,it never amounts to a pile of beans,that everything got worse, the most negative elements of society have the upper hand and you are blamed for all that got wrong. Turning the AD/CP into rurales,would disband the most able, sending them away from their communities and spreading them too thin, while leaving all the corrupt elements that created the problems in place.
the federales need to go away, take their corrupt arny and politicians with them, and let the michoacan communities to self govern. it is about time to make the federal government understand that they can not keep exporting their corrupt gangster/politicians to the provinces to keep the criminality down on the capital area,and the AD/CP prisoners should be released before any talkity talk,it is dumb to be talking to epn's envoys as long as they are keeping hostages,unless point #1 is resolved or being worked on, as a matter of fact, it is the only thing that should be talked about, next the prosecution of the corrupt politicians and the withdrawal of the army of shame,that could achieve no victories against a bunch of criminals with less resources and personnel because of their officer's corruption...
it is NOT about solving the AD/CP problem by any means, that is a wrong proposition to start with...

Anonymous said...

Talking about politicians....Yesterday I saw Piena Nieto on spanish Television. I just shook my head I could not even laugh it was so upsurd. He seemed nervous. The look on his face was of total confusion. He was fidgety, and didn't even know what words to use. He stated that the Auto defensas should give up their weapons and that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAD THE SITUATION UNDER CONTROL. (UNDER CONTROL?) Are people that watch television that stupid or do the politicians think they are that stupid? Right before he made that statement. They had just shown five minutes of up to date shootouts in Tierra Calliente, dead people in the streets, and total chaos going on, besides all of the other stuff that has been coming for the last month all over the world news. Are the politicians afraid to tell the truth for fear of expising their own corruption? Or are they afraid of exposing the real powerful people behind all of the corruption for fear of getting assasinated? There seems to be alot of fear at all levels of Mexican society right now. The words comming out of politicians mouths does the match the fear I see in there eyes. May God help the people of this beautiful country! Oh by the way, once again the President of Mexico said the situation in Michuacan is under control. That stament reminds me of Baghdad Bob saying that the Iraqi army was kicking the shit out of the U.S. military. While simultaneously the televisions sets showing U.S. Marines in the Iraqi capital taking the statue of a Saddam Hussain down, and people all over the steets celebrating the defeat of Saddam Hussain.

Anonymous said...

8:17 the auto-defenses, the policia communitaria members and their supporters give each other all the legitimacy they need, the government envoys, need some legitimacy, let's see how much legitimacy they achieve...let's don't allow any twisting or bending of the facts,the government demagogues are experts in burying the seeds of destruction in the small print,half truths and outright lies

Anonymous said...

GENERAL enriquito galindez ceballos should take off his uniform, and visit wit the victims of the criminals, with the families of the women and men hanged from the posts recently, with the families of the people that soldier shot while "struggling for his weapon", he should wear his uniform to defend the government forces that could do nothing against the ct,but he does not have to, he may be representing the federal government, but he needs to be aware that the criminals are being represented and looked after by e politicians in charge. the AD do not wear military insignias or presume of any rank,except for a few self named comandantes, they all represent their movement with honor and efficiency, and do not have to kow-tow to anybody from outside the state. the general should drop the uniform and the pretenses and be with the people to the end,sit down to eat what they eat and see their campaign with them, he may learn how to win the hearts and the respect of the people, something the mexican military and government don't know anything about...

Anonymous said...

@9:41 no templarios to come back, ever.
Funnyman, with all due respect,the autodefensas are not asking for jobs with the rural police, and that is the last thing they need.
they are not asking for pay either, while well deserved, the time for that will arrive, if they do not have to support an army that isn't any good, and without a bunch of corrupt government officers to support, they will have time to work it all out, witout a bunch of gangsters to extort from their paychecks, to kill and murder at will, to kidnap and rape, the auto defensas will do very good on their own, the federal envoys have never done any good anywhere they get sent, they always leave a worse mess,try harder...

Anonymous said...

the pri is institutionalized like a garrapata, (thick?),nobody wants it but it just won't go, the government is not there to help itself to the people's patrimony,it is there to serve, and the purpose of to authority is to seek and pursue the common good, not to protect the gangsters inside or outside of government,it is there to help businessmen, not to become their bitch, jumping up and down at their every whim, the giniral encebollado,should listen to the AD/CP, not come with the ten commandments of pena nieto trying to "control", he should be just given the list of grievances and see if he can do something, or go to the "president" to consult and come back with solutions or propositions, there is no need for containment or control of the AD, and he needs to be very clear about what he and his army are going to do about the criminals,and the corrupt peoples that work for them

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