Reporting on the Mexican Cartel Drug War

In Mexico, a legal breakdown invites brutal justice

Thursday, December 9, 2010 |



Nine-year-old Lisette mourns her mother, Rosalia Esther Vazquez, in Praxedis G. Guerrero, a town in Chihuahua, Mexico's most violent state. Vazquez was one of five people killed this fall when gunmen fired on buses carrying factory workers. (Nikki Kahn)

By Nick Miroff and William Booth
Washington Post Staff Writers

IN ASCENCION, MEXICO In this dusty farm town, an hour south of the U.S. border, more than 40 people were abducted - one a week - in the first nine months of the year.

Then, on Sept. 21, the kidnappings stopped.

That was the day a gang of kidnappers with AK-47 assault rifles burst into Lolo's seafood restaurant and tried to abduct the 17-year-old cashier. A mob of enraged residents chased down two of the teenage attackers and lynched them in a cotton field on the edge of town.

"We're not proud of what happened," said Georgina "Coca" Gonzalez, who helped form an armed citizens' group after the incident to fight crime and prevent kidnappings. "But we're united now - the whole town. And we all want justice."

Across the country, and especially in northern Mexico, the breakdown of the legal system is giving way to a wave of vigilante violence. As Mexicans grow frustrated with the depredations of drug mafias and the corruption and incompetence of authorities, some are meting out punishment the old-fashioned way, taking an eye for eye, or in some cases, an eye for a tooth.

Some of these retributive acts have happened spontaneously, such as the Ascencion "uprising," as many here have celebrated it. But other killings in the past year appear to have been carried out by shadowy forces who have left bodies along highways or hanging from bridges with handwritten notes that advertise the dead as "extortionists" or "kidnappers."

Mexico has a long history of rough justice carried out by citizens, but it has traditionally occurred in isolated villages, in the mountains or jungles, often among Mexico's indigenous peoples.

Today, vigilante groups appear to be at work even in major cities.

Late last year, authorities discovered four bodies, including an alleged Monterrey gangster, Hector Saldana, and his two brothers, in a car in Mexico City. The deaths were announced by Mauricio Fernandez, the new mayor of the Monterrey suburb of San Pedro Garza Garcia, even before police identified the bodies.


Fernandez said he had nothing to do with the killings, although he boasted of his plans to create "cleansing teams" to rid his city of criminals.

"Sometimes coincidences happen in life. It's better to see it that way," Fernandez told a Monterrey newspaper.

'Social cleansing'

In Ciudad Juarez, the epicenter of violence, murder suspects seem more likely to end up dead than appear before a judge. Several days after gunmen massacred 13 people at a party there in October, two heads were found in plastic bags on the hood of a car with a note warning, "This is what happens to those who kill women and children."

A group of Mexican senators has called for an investigation into extrajudicial killings in the country, alleging that "death squads" of current and former soldiers and police were to blame for some of the more than 30,000 killings since President Felipe Calderon declared war on the country's drug cartels four years ago.

According to Sen. Ricardo Monreal, wealthy business families have hired former police and soldiers to guard their interests and protect them from kidnapping and extortion. Some of the paramilitary-style groups work as contract killers for the drug cartels, the senator said; others might work as freelancers for the families of victims, who are seeking revenge or tired of paying extortion. Finally, some may be engaged in a kind of "social cleansing" aimed at low-level gang members, petty criminals and drug addicts.

Gustavo de la Rosa, a top human rights official in Chihuahua, Mexico's most violent state, said the flood of killings and other crimes in recent years has resulted in the "collapse" of the legal system, leaving frustrated citizens to view raw vengeance as their only recourse.

"First, people wait for the government to deliver justice," de la Rosa said. "Then they move on to the next phase, when they go looking for it themselves. I think we're now at the beginning of the second stage."

More than 96 percent of crimes committed in Juarez over the past three years remain unsolved, according to a database maintained by the city's El Diario newspaper.

At the state prosecutor's offices in Juarez, unsolved homicide cases were stacked up in manila folders, rising from investigators' desks in mountains of paper.

'We won't take it'

Members of the armed citizens' group in Ascencion said they're not trying to challenge the drug cartels or interfere with their smuggling operations, which would be suicidal. But they said they can no longer abide the kidnappings, rapes, shakedowns and other abuses that have terrorized residents.

"We won't take it anymore," said Victor Hernandez, a block captain delegated to oversee security in Ascencion, which the group has divided into quadrants.

Mexican gun control laws limit citizens to owning smaller-caliber weapons and a handful of bullets for home defense, but group members said they were not going to leave themselves vulnerable and outgunned.

In Ascension, the group has erected a siren tower, like the kind that might warn residents in Kansas of an impending tornado, to alert everyone in town that a kidnapping is in progress. Members of the group then quickly mobilize and block the highway that passes through town.

With support from local officials, the group has also dug a trench around the town, wide and deep enough that a vehicle could not escape by driving off-road.

Members of the group said they plan to turn suspects over to authorities but were prepared to "disappear" them if authorities fail to do their jobs. The body of a suspected stereo thief was found on the edge of town in October, as rumors circulated that he, too, had been lynched.

"This whole country is suffering," said Fernando Saenz, the citizen group's elected leader. "It's time for the people to take over, because the government isn't doing its job. We have to take care of ourselves."

Not waiting for help

Saenz, 63, was one of the residents who attacked the kidnappers on Sept. 21. Some in the crowd broke their hands and wrists as they pounded the suspects furiously, he said.

Federal police pulled the kidnappers from the mob, and then handcuffed and locked them in a police vehicle. As the crowd swelled, chanting "Kill them! Kill them!" and "We want justice!" residents blocked the police from leaving or landing helicopters.

Already bloodied from the beating, the kidnapping suspects died inside the sweltering-hot police vehicle. No one was charged, which is not surprising given the huge crowd and the widespread public support for what happened.

"These people are farmers; they're not murderers," said Julian Lebaron, a leader of the large Mormon community south of Ascension. "I don't approve of the lynching here in Ascencion, but the spirit of what happened here is what we need in Mexico."

In his own town, Lebaron said, residents have erected a watchtower, and each night two men climb the ladder and peer out into the darkness through night-vision goggles. Asked what they would do to stop a kidnapping or assault, Lebaron said, "We would call the authorities, but we wouldn't sit around and wait for them to come help us. We would defend ourselves."

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75 Borderland Beat Comments:

Anonymous said...

Finally... It gets organized... you only have so much blood to spill before you start to think of solutions...Amen Mexico!

Anonymous said...

That's more like it!

Capo said...

Paramilitary hit squads for hire? That's nothing new, I know of a family that did exactly that, a guy from a cartel killed there son over a girl and she went to someone higher in the same organization to pay to have him killed! Some loyalty in this cartels, yeah right!

Smurf said...

Great read, the Washington Post seems to cover this war better than most of the Northeastern newspapers.

'lito 'brito said...

about time ..this is the only solution where there is a breakdown in society such as in Mexico

Anonymous said...

This sort of justice is carried out on Indonesian islands and seems to work. Mexico needs something as the police always arrive to late.

Anonymous said...

What is with the Secure the Border advertisement up top?

ajulio said...

what a great article. the mexican citizens are fighting back by using strategic defenses. some are using vigilantism. some are using more peaceful methods. newspapers are writing their discontent towards the government and cartels. the people are spreading the words of peace throughout mexico. i hope this momentum spreads. its amazing how the people are doing this on their own without the help of government. power to the people. viva la raza!

Anonymous said...

"Gustavo de la Rosa [said]..the flood of killings and other crimes in recent years has resulted in the "collapse" of the legal system, leaving frustrated citizens to view raw vengeance as their only recourse."

I think it is the other way around. The collapse of the legal system and corruption of the political system in Mexico have resulted in a rise in killings because the criminals are not afraid of the law.

As a result, ordinary citizens have no recourse but to defend themselves. Ascencion is paving the way... Perhaps they'll teach the government something!

Anonymous said...

Better to rid of evil quietly. no retaliation if they just vanish into thin air.

Anonymous said...

Well put and agreed, 6:43!

Anonymous said...

Well, how nice. Here we have a steady stream of all the usual Borderland Beat Right Wing dittoheads cheering on for the formation of new death squads in Mexico. But just whom are the organizer 'vigilantes' ...read death squad organizers (all saints according to the US BB, nitwit dittoheads online)... we might ask ourselves? Lets take a look at just one mentioned in this report, as this mayor of Garza Garcia boasts about a few of his newly organized murders....

Here it is again in the Washington Post report we just read...

'Late last year, authorities discovered four bodies, including an alleged Monterrey gangster, Hector Saldana, and his two brothers, in a car in Mexico City. The deaths were announced by Mauricio Fernandez, the new mayor of the Monterrey suburb of San Pedro Garza Garcia, even before police identified the bodies. Fernandez said he had nothing to do with the killings, although he boasted of his plans to create "cleansing teams" to rid his city of criminals.'

"Sometimes coincidences happen in life. It's better to see it that way," Fernandez told a Monterrey newspaper.'

First of all, Fernandez is the mayor of the suburb of Monterrey where all the richy rich, regio big wig fat cats tend to choose to park themselves at Monterrey area. He is owner of PYOSA, a group of chemical producers who have contaminated the airs of Monterrey with dangerous chemicals that have most probably killed thousands in the area through the years. All by helping create the toxic smog that often overhangs the city.

Fernandez is also with Grupo Alfa, a group of rich industrialists who have organized death squads of hit men in Monterrey in the past, killing opposition students and labor activists with their hired guns.

See wikipedia about some more of the background of this new mayor who wants to brag to the press about his plans to organize new death squads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauricio_Fernández_Garza

Once again we can see that the US is simply chock full of dullard Right Wingers, whose only solution for anything is to cheer for murder and mayhem and US government mandated war making in other peoples' lands. These porristas for continued and worsened bloodshed are simply a very sad sack, and infinitely ignorant, lot.

Ernest1

Anonymous said...

Ps lebaron is not a mormon leader. Hes not even mormon.

BUELA.... said...

Thanks Ovemex another home run..
Yes, its Buela, failed the pre-op so you are stuck with me and my rantings/pearls of wisdom until Monday.

I WANT TO SHARE TWO VIDEOS (ENG LANG) THEY TEAR TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szIn_VM2-mo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrz03VkmpgI

Anonymous said...

Your films seem to have shown me mainly, 'Buela, that the New York Times likes 'private security' outfits (like the Pentagon used with Blackwater and others like it in Iraq and Afghanistan and other other hot spots where the Pentagon is) for Mexico, too. That's the real gist of this US media propagandizing that supposedly all the violence in Mexico is cartel caused, and never Mexican government or death squads run by Mexico's rich industrialist set doing anything bad.

Let's face it, too, Blackwater and similar outfits used by the Pentagon often have used death squads. Now, it appears that Calderon and the US government, also, are beginning to openly favor some such use of State organized death squads in Mexico. How else can one explain why a mayor in the Monterrey metro area can openly state that he is organizing such squads, without any personal consequence to him for doing so?

This use of openly talking about using death squads is a copy of how the US government openly uses snipers (hit men), to go out and assassinate 'terrorists', or other political enemies of the Pentagon and D.C. How also they openly have used torture on POWs held by the US government, without any questions really asked, no punishments dished outto teh officials ordering it.

Here is more about the death squad pushing mayor of Garza Carcia, suburb for the ricos in Monterrey. The Washington Post should publish more about this guy and who his backers really are. Will they? The info is in Spanish from columnist, Monreal. It was published in September and here we are in December and this death squad pushing Mexican public official is being hailed by some as a hero.

http://www.vanguardia.com.mx/evidenciasdequehayescuadronesdelamuerteen6estadosmonreal-555083.html

Ernest1

ilovehaze said...

i fear more suffering for poor mexico.
los estados unidos really needs to educate and
protect it's citizens with the truth about dangerous drugs like cocaine/meth. They need to legalize cannabis in USA/Mexico, and protect the USA Homeland.

Put up 300,000 cameras along the border and donate another 300,00 cameras to Mexico. $50 bucks a camera (bulk purchase) w/(nightvision) equates to $ 30 million. that's fucking nothing, the communists in the white office robbed us trillions due to the deficit. Protect our fucking homeland and get those nasty fucking drugs off all of our streets. World Peace Yall. ```puff puff pass``

Anonymous said...

The picture of the little girl just breaks my heart. Everyone in mexico needs to think outside the box. The sicarios are not going to just wake up one morning and not cause anymore mayhem. They have no reasoning besides riding in large suv's all coked up and hurting innocent people. I say fight fire with fire and kill them. Does anyone have a better idea? The citizens of Ascencion are making a brave and right choice. Don't let these thugs get away with all this crap. Join a hunting club and arm yourself, you can posses up 10 weapons, rifles up to 300 win mag. And no I'm not a white right-wing nut, I'm mexican and travel to mexico several times a year, own various weapons down there and will not hestiate to blow a hole in anybody wanting to hurt me or my loved ones.

'lito 'brito said...

aren't police anywhere just a lighter version of death squads mas o menos...

when the "real" police are either too corrupt or outnumbered there has to be some alternative...

i personally don't like the rico San Pedro side , but i do have to admit the mayors get tough approach seems to work...it is safer for the people who live there...and given that he could end up dead it shows cajones to step up and deal with the problem

it is a well proven fact that tough police keep the criminals at bay

Matt said...

Excellent, but in order for it to be really painful for the cartels, the government needs to sanction this vigilantism. They could do it in the form of granting Letters of Marque and Reprisal to towns that are organizing and attacking the cartels. And if those towns are able to take anything from the cartels, like weapons/cars/houses/money, they should be able to keep a portion of that.

In other words, you must incentivize the destruction of the cartels, because people can't just fight the cartels all day and all night long for free. They have families to feed, and must still make a living. So for an eradication system like this to be effective, it must be self sustaining and offer some reward or incentive so people can continue the act, as well as continue protecting their communities or destroying cartels.

'lito 'brito said...

@ ilovehaze said

bueno...yeap...legalize the "erb... you want to spark it up...grow your own...

guard our borders..stop the white powder...drug addiction is a medical problem...you want to be a needle freak drug addict ..ok here is your card ...come in once a week get your supply...take the big profit out of it ...the whole thing is over money...

the talk of invading Mexico is straight bullshit...the narcos would love that..it would legitimize them...and the internationalists live for that kind of shit...$$$$$

it ain't cheech y chong in Mexico..these narcoculeros need to either be starved out or shot ...

starve them out on the money is the best way...


neville's haze?

'lito 'brito said...

@ matt

yeah man ...a lot of these narcos are some fat ducks...allow the people to pluck them...and watch how fast they settle down...hey man see that big escalade those narcos are driving....lets take it from them ....sell it ...build an addition on the school improve the park,...etc..... now who is the one afraid of being mugged?...keep what you kill...sounds simplistic?...sometimes the simple answer is the best answer

of course improving social conditions is the long term answer...education ..jobs...but first you have to be able to go to school and go to work

Buela said...

@E1
My friend with the knitted eyebrows. Surprisingly, you missed my point (tongue in cheek)
if you will take your blinders off you will know by now that my humanitarian work 99% of which benefits concerns of children. My work/concern has no borders; US, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Colombia, Iraq, Haiti and of course Mexico. Not to mention the countries of my job, my business, which includes 4 countries in the pacific rim including China and Vietnam. So if there is an amazing video that I FEEL and I KNOW is an accurate representation of our children in Mx, from THEIR mouths of what exists, then I will post it. That was the intent when I specifically stated "the heart of the matter" . If you read my posts I have declared many times my GREATEST fear is not what is today, but awaits in our tomorrows as these children exposed to such horror become adults. The other video I posted because I thought that there is a place for private security, if those who can pay do so that is a lighter hit on resources, furthermore I thought this was a caring person who had imposed boundaries, by all accounts refuses to "kill" simply for the kill, even tho he would be hailed as a hero in doing so. His weapons are weak but they are the allowed weapons of article 12 in the Mexico constitution affording to VERY citizen of Mx the right to a 357 & 38 caliber.
As a 501C3 NGO, I know that I will get deported from any country if I become political. Politics are off limits and I have been careful in the media and careful with fotos that are taken in a social setting that cannot be used as a political endorsement. There are times I want to scream from the roof tops when the corruption is so blatant, such as the first Center for Autism/speech impaired children I built and a Politian stood out in front and said it was his work, the promise he made to the people fulfilled. I could do nothing knowing he sleeps with the Zetas, I tried but Zocalo and Televisa would not touch the story.
In México I found myself in a uniquely new position from any country I have taken my work in. In short time I was sitting across the desks of the state and federal leaders of Mx, who embarrassed my work, allowing me to conduct it in a way never done for a foreigner, while on the other hand I reached out to the municipal leaders, educational directors, professors and the common citizenry, partnering together on half my projects. But this position placed me smack in the eye opening position to see that Mx is a greatly flawed society, and any perception of good for the people comes with a price, also should be viewed as one of those Hollywood sets, looks real until you peek around to the back and see an emptiness. I know firsthand what exists, and I cannot blame the cartels, they are the manifestation of the corruption and flawed design of the society. In attempts to maintain a sever e divide of the classes, the very design of that goal has manifested in what is occurring in Mx today. Frightening for sure but nothing compared to what is coming when this group of children become adults.
I will propose another Q for you, which will remain unanswered ad the last posts I made, addressed to you, still remain so, unanswered because you only have time to condemn and not consider solutions. My question is what do you propose would help Mx , lets just take the socio; educational or economic factors, what would you propose?
while at it, answer my other posts if you are able, via open post or email.

Buela said...

CORRECTION>>>
Murf or Buggs my post to E1 there is a word very worng...

my work was not
embarrased my the leaders of MX but of course EMBRACED by the leaders. is it possible to make the correction, it will not read correctly without the typo....

Anonymous said...

"When guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns"...

can't remember where I heard that, but I think I understand it better now.

Amelia E said...

Ernest1- The New York Times "likes" private security outfits for Mexico because it did a story on one?

All of your talk about "bad" people doing "bad" things seems very simplistic.

And how does a comment by the mayor of Monterrey somehow reveal that the US supports of private security outfits?

Anonymous said...

Leave it to 'brito to come up with the line that it supposedly shows cojones to be a rich organizer of private death squads cruising the neighborhood for Mr. Top Dog!


'i personally don't like the rico San Pedro side , but i do have to admit the mayors get tough approach seems to work...it is safer for the people who live there...and given that he could end up dead it shows cajones to step up and deal with the problem'

Interesting how the US Right shows its true murderous colors so easily in these 'discussions'... though of course, 'lito 'brito sez he's not a Right Winger like Big Bad Ernest1 says that he is, but he sure just loves death squads It seems???? They work, 'brito sez... He must think that Dick Cheney has big cannon ball cojones, too! ..lol...

Ernest1

Anonymous said...

This is a good question and it has never been adequately answered, I think.

'December 9, 2010 5:42 PM Anonymous said...
What is with the Secure the Border advertisement up top?'

Perhaps the answer lies in that a lot of these perfectly bilingual Tex Mex posters at BB might have some background in working for ICE, or La Migra? Yes, Webb County (Laredo, Texas) especially is crawling with these Hispanic cracker types in their little old ugly ICE uniforms and their piss green Migra vehicles hunting down their own Raza.

It gets nasty down where 'Secure the Border' squad of Right Wingers operates. Brown skin and talking espanol is no real indicator that you are for the people, so to speak.

The Pentagon has had a totally corrupting influence on La Raza from General Ricardo Sanchez on down in rank. Google ol' Ricardo up on wikipedia if you do not know that he was in charge of the US military in occupying Iraq and running Abu Ghraib for a while? A creature raised out of Rattle Snake High in Rio Grande City... 'Home of the Rattlesnakes"

These are the type of folk that might see no problem in having a 'Secure the Border' link on the heading of this BB site...

Ernest1

Anonymous said...

For those who think Mayor Mau is the hero of San Pedro, think again.

Yes, it is relatively calmer and safer in San Pedro, but not just since Mau has been in.

Heavy narcos moved their entire families into St Peter's long ago. Their money has been washed and rewashed into so many high up businesses in this city: stores, restaurants, night clubs, schools.

As the saying goes, you don't shit where you eat..or where you sleep. THAT is what keeps St Peters safe.

Anonymous said...

"Perhaps the answer lies in that a lot of these perfectly bilingual Tex Mex posters at BB might have some background in working for ICE, or La Migra?"

Ernest1 cannot seem to imagine someone who honestly disagrees with him without being paid for it.

It's a pity. He can't distinguish between death squads and true citizen militias; in his fear of the one, he is willing to write off the other. If more citizens were willing to defend themselves, neither the cartelistas, nor the kidnappers, nor the death squads would stand a chance.

Anonymous said...

There's no conspiracy, they paid for ad space.

Anonymous said...

We are not talking about a 'conspiracy' but it is interesting who is an acceptable advertiser here, too, Anonymous.

One other thing about this thread which is titled... 'In Mexico, a legal breakdown invites brutal justice'.... It is not 'brutal justice' to have the rich in Mexico organizing death squads. It is 'brutal injustice'. Just like how the supposed international war on terrorism has become a US war of terrorism against other peoples, the war against drug cartels could easily spin into being yet another Mexican government war of political terrorism against its opponents, but criminal and political. We should be cognizant of that.

Ernest1

Smurf said...

"Perhaps the answer lies in that a lot of these perfectly bilingual Tex Mex posters at BB might have some background in working for ICE, or La Migra?"

lol I wish I worked had for them, the paycheck would prob be great! Just reading some of the paranoid theories that spring up from Ernest1 and others make me laugh. As far as the ads...I don't agree with immigration enforcement until we have some real migra law reform, but then again I don't care who has advertises here, it doesn't bother me any, I'm sure CNN and Fox news runs ads for people and products that run contrary to their political ideals, especially during an election cycle.

Quite frankly if u look at MY posts u will see that I lean FAR to the LEFT on that issue.

But to suggest that we are right-wing U.S. government cronies is laughable at best and somewhat insulting.

Its all good though, I wouldn't expect any less from u Ernest!

Anonymous said...

I think we've had enough of ernulfo1 and litto (aka) "ni de aqui ni da aya". If you're not down for protecting our borders and keeping illegals out of our country then wtf are you down for? I think it's time somebody revoked your green card for talking all that bs. Stop trying to sound like you actually go out there and do some real hardcore reporting. All you do is copy and paste what you post and try to pass it off as your own research and hard work. BorderlandBeat knows where it stands. Buela knows where she stands. When was the last time you did something good for anybody instead of flapping those gums? BB keep up the good work.

Anonymous said...

Smurf,I am not talking up some conspiracy theory when I mention that that there are a lot of Hispanic Migra (ICE agents) out there, and their particularly POVs are extremely conservative and US military time influenced.

These ICE folk are Brown, most often speak great Spanish, eat taquitos and barbacoa constantly, and consider themselves the advanced intellectual set in La Raza. They consider themselves some sort of newer elite and get paid much better than most of their paisanos who have mainly to make a living outside of getting a government paycheck.

To the Anglos here who think that South Texas Latinos are all liberals, you are wrong. They are often times the most lackadaisical, unmotivated centrist Democrats possible, who support a lot the PAN in Northern Mexico, who are somewhat the equivalent of being the Mexican Republican Party. Not exactly a group of raving radicals, and when they find a job with La Migra, they become much worse in their basically conservative outlooks.

Then we have the barbarian Right, with their anymoe comments like this...

'If you're not down for protecting our borders and keeping illegals out of our country then wtf are you down for?'

Anonymoe, I like people and not property lines and fences and guns. And I do plenty of good for people, Moe. It is just that you don't like what I have to say that gets you into such a redneck hissy fit aboout me along with that strange hussy Buela. I am so very very sorry.... I'll try to please you more... ..lol...

Ernest1

ajulio said...

@10:18 am

Interesting comment. I agree with you. The same has happened in el paso. Many juarenses that have moved to el paso are or were connected to the drug biz. They have opened many businesses from restaurants to clubs to jewelry stores everywhere throughout el paso. Their businesses are even much better than the el paso businesses. Many still use these businesses just to launder dirty money. These people just know how to take and produce for themselves but they also know how to live peacefully when its necessary. But i've always found that phrase funny, " you don't shit where you eat or sleep".

Its funny how the U.S. will let any immigrant enter as long as the immigrant has money.

Gerardo said...

Ernesto uno

Take a look in the mirror, that idiot looking back at you has so much in common with the views of that group that advertises here, the similarities are uncanny; the same intolerance, the same narrowminded rigidity, the same condescension, the same disdain for "South Texas Latinos" and "hispanic cracker types", the same pompous bullshit, the same insincerity.

Please don't use the term "La Raza" in your comments. You have no idea what that concept really means. Just stick to Mexicans or hispanic crackers. Don't insult us any more than you really have to. OK?

ajulio said...

now gerardo has blown his top. sheesh, i dont understand why everyone takes ernest1 so seriously. this guy is just a complainer. i was offended with a comment that he made towards buela though. he said that she was'nt a religous woman becuase of her tendency to cuss sometimes and called her a liar. that was a mean comment. especially when buela is a good person. lito is a good guy too and doesnt deserve to be told to,"shoot himself". and matanzas is a man with a big heart. he doesnt deserve to be chewed out all the time. but just like ernest said himself," we're all just getting our panties wet over him."

Buggs said...

In forcing myself to read Ernesto-uno’s misguided and irrelevant rhetoric, I leave with the conclusion that his points that lead to nowhere can be hard to stomach, especially when he attacks anything or anyone from the hip. When the scope of vision is motivated by a narrow mind, it can never lead to anything of substance. You should really re-examine your resolve my friend!

Yes I know, I have descended to a new low and for that I find an after taste of regret!

Damnit!

Anonymous said...

Ernest, you really done it this time, you have ticked off the big boss, el senor Buggs!

Not good mister!

Anonymous said...

Ernie baby, this is a free country, I am sure you too can pay for an ad in BB and everyone will click away to read all your good shit,
not!

Poor Ovemex, everyone stole his show, you all owe him an apology!

Anonymous said...

Until someone decides to do something about the poverty in Mexico nothing will change.
The poor families are happy when their son brings home money and a new car.
With the collapse of the US economy joining a drug cartel is equal to the young men wet backing it to the US and sending money home.
A construction worker in Mexico in Chiapas and Oaxaca can legally be paid 50 pesos for an 8 hour work day.
That is equal to $3.50 us dollars.
Who can live on that? No one is willing to look at and do something about the poor wages in Mexico which is equal to slavery.

Anonymous said...

When the scope of vision is motivated by a narrow mind, it can never lead to anything of substance. You should really re-examine your resolve my friend!

'lito 'brito said...

@ ERNST T..... AKA POLLY WANTS A CRACKER


you gonna start up with me again...no you are not...

you are a hypocritical moron who obfuscates any bit of wisdom you may be able to impart by your personal attacks...

i am not sorry for your bitter ass...and most of what you say is already old news to anyone who has not been in a coma for the last twenty years

you are a , what we used to call a "negative energy being" or a physic vampire ...you offer nothing but negativity , and apparently are masochistic and thrive on abuse...

the only way you can get noticed is by making an ass out of yourself...like a child who behaves badly to get attention..

you remind me of some of those leftovers form the 60's you see over in Berkley on Telegraph ave , chasing people around yelling obscenities

it is a testament to the tolerance of the folks on BB that your pedantic comments are even published..

don't forget... you exist only at the whim of the moderators...maybe you should tread lightly pendejo lest you fall through thin ice and vanish forever

it is beneath me to interact with you,
so what i intend to do in the future is to mostly ignore you

when i do respond to your attacks it will be like this

what solutions do YOU propose?

what did you do all the time you spent in central and south America?

why are you living in the USA?

other than that.... nada

'lito 'brito said...

i agree about the low wage situation in Mexcio...it think it is part of the plan of the narcos to prevent Mexico from stabilizing enough to enable economic development..

as long as theirs is is the only game in town they can expect lots of recruits

that is why i advocate a hard line approach ..

first it is necessary to create an environment safe enough for kids to go to school...for people to work and operate business...as of now it is not even safe for the taco stand to be open..not safe to send kids to school

as long as this is the situation, it is in favor of the criminals

'lito 'brito said...

when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns

it is from the NRA...it is actually an example of one of the fallacies of logic "circular argument"...

but it is hard to refute...

stand for something, or fall for anything

Anonymous said...

The actions of this Fascist leaning goon mayor in organizing his own little richie rich corporate death squads to supposedly just combat cartel 'delinquency' in Garza Garcia (Monterrey ) is absolutely nothing new, it seems... Here is an English translation of a Spanish language opinion piece in El Universal that was published speaking out against this mayor published over one year ago. It comes from Mex Files, and runs counter to all the Latino cheerleading for death squads that BB is now providing the US public who might read of these events in English, not Spanish..

ttp://mexfiles.net/2009/11/06/we-kill-the-criminals/

Here is a brief passage from the commentary....

'Who benefits when politicians run on on “vengence” platform, like the mayor of the Monterrey suburb? It is a terrible precedent.

Citizens must understand that opposition to death squads is not squeamishness. They understand history and human behavior. Mercenaries hired by governments or business groups to eliminate criminals eventually become part of a gang of kidnappers or assassins.'

Yes, indeed they do.

Ernest1

Anonymous said...

I would hardly call this sort of Right Winger rant from you exactly 'ignoring' me, Brito.... asyou asssert that you will do.

''lito 'brito said...
@ ERNST T..... AKA POLLY WANTS A CRACKER

you gonna start up with me again...no you are not...

you are a hypocritical moron who obfuscates any bit of wisdom you may be able to impart by your personal attacks...

i am not sorry for your bitter ass...and most of what you say is already old news to anyone who has not been in a coma for the last twenty years

you are a , what we used to call a "negative energy being" or a physic vampire ...you offer nothing but negativity , and apparently are masochistic and thrive on abuse...

the only way you can get noticed is by making an ass out of yourself...like a child who behaves badly to get attention..

you remind me of some of those leftovers form the 60's you see over in Berkley on Telegraph ave , chasing people around yelling obscenities

it is a testament to the tolerance of the folks on BB that your pedantic comments are even published..

don't forget... you exist only at the whim of the moderators...maybe you should tread lightly pendejo lest you fall through thin ice and vanish forever

it is beneath me to interact with you,
so what i intend to do in the future is to mostly ignore you '

Actually, it is a call for Borderland Beat to censor me, because simply you don't like my opinions, do you, Brito?

Oh, BTW. You misspelled Berkeley in your ravings... Evidently you got no education there during your stroll down Telegraph. So just where were you 'educated', if I might ask?

Ernest1

Smurf said...

You haven't experienced censorship yet Enrest but keep it up and you just might...

"lito"brito said...

i am not convinced all, this trouble in Mexico is a plot by the USA to invade Mexico...

why would it?...what is there to gain ?

to exploit the labor force by allowing US owned factories to operate without safety or health standards?...NAFTA already accomplished that

to further exploit Mexican labor ...

by keeping the current immigration policy,
that is already happening...Mexicans cross illegally . are employed illegally . are exploited by the employer...have no status are at the mercy of the greedy money men..seems to be just perfect already

for the oil?

isn't most of the oil under the gulf ...seems like that is already pretty well owned

to spread influence?

Mexico is pretty well influenced already

to ensure US security?

this seems unnecessary..Mexico is not likely to cooperate with any incursion into the US

to control the drug market?

the US drug prohibition already does this

if it is a given that the majority of the wealth of Mexico is controlled by a few elite families , many of whom are suspected of either being directly involved , or in collusion with the narcos...

it seems that it would be in their interest to preserve the "status quo."..wouldn't it stand to reason that they would be better served to negotiate trade agreements to further enrich themselves

why cooperate in any plan to engineer a fight over what you already control

if the US invaded, wouldn't it compromise the control already held by these people

i am not trying to be flippant or ask rhetorical questions ...i am serious

i am having trouble following the money trail

what would the USA stand to gain by invading Mexico?


for the sake of bandwidth , please , only respond with serious answers

Smurf said...

@lil brito

what I am about to propose I don't believe for a second... But I think the counter-argumentwould go something like this:

If the "greedy money men"(as you so eloquently put) wanted to make EVEN more money then it would make sense to take a fully functioning structure (i.e. Mexico, the U.S. economy etc.) Destroy it, buy up any resources and property when they are dirt cheap, and tax the shit out the people to have them PAY you to rebuild that land you just secretely destroyed.

Again, sound like BS to me, but I that's the illogical thinking that goes with paranoia.

And if this is the case, then brutal vigilante justice is all the people of Mex have left to protect themselves with. In essence its Blackwater's dream come true: capitalism at it finest, pay for any service you need including the death of your rivals!

"lito'brito said...

@ smurf

i can see the destruction and rebuilding being necessary If the wealthy folks in Mexico wouldn't play ball...but it seemed that was the purpose of NAFTA... and they were more than willing to play ball, and cooperate in setting up the old factory/company town scenario in all of Mexico

the current situation is counter to that

it even seems counter to the interests of narcos who own or control the vice trade that profits from tourism..

the whole thing is knocking the money down..

slowed foreign investment affects the ricos who are gonna own the factories

slowed tourism ..affects the ricos who own the resorts..la mismo for the cartels who run the vice in the resorts

even decreased profits for the cartels...they have increased operating expenses, and have probably had to offset some of these by increasing prices

greater awareness in the USA about our own drug problem, and how it affects the drug market y prices in Mexico, possibly resulting in either decreased consumption or some form of decriminalization/legalization that would surely lower profit margins for all involved in the trade

all very byzantine


to simplify it..less money coming into Mexico ...less money all around


who stands to gain from this mess...certainly not Mexico...it is blood not gold running into the streets

the USA...i just don't see it

that leaves un otra parte

i am starting to smell a third party who would benefit from the US being drawn in

if for some reason the USA intervened in Mexico, it would embitter both countries toward each other forever

lessen the cooperation and friendship that exists...lessen US influence ...make Mexico look towards another direction for trade etc...

I always suspect the hidden hand of the moneylender...but this time i can't see it ...very confusing

who stands to gain?...it is unclear to me

who stands to lose is very clear...Mexico and the USA

maybe it is just what it seems ..a genuine battle between the govt and the narcos

for some reason i just have trouble accepting that..conditioned paranoia???

either way like you say ...the people taking their security in their own hands is a wild card that throws a shoe into whatever plan stands to gain from destabilizing Mexico...

Smurf said...

Lil Brito: I have only one word that explains why NAFTA failed after it was basically undercut for competing production costs, and the mysterious "third party" you speak of, who stands to gain from all this chaos, whose not-so-invisible hand moves all markets:

China.

IF they really wanted to destabilize us, they would figure a way to start a much of problems for us so the U.S. gov is running around like the little Dutch boy trying to hold back the flood by plugging the dam leak with his fingers.

But there is hardly any proof of this.

A breakdown of law and order on our border would be incredibly chaotic and we've proven to the world through our recent military interventions across the world that the American public doesn't have the stomach for a really bloody war.

Especially in Mexico.

It seems like that Mexico never really moved past the Wild West mentality, complete with White hats and black hats and vigilante justice.

A modern day version of High Noon for some of the Northeastern Alcaldes and Police chiefs.

'lito'brito said...

@ smurf

yeap.. good point.. huela salsa de soya..jaja

made in china worked here ...put the screws to the US manufactoring industry...free trade ..most favored nation trading status indeed...

Mexico does have some old ties with china ...given that the chinese laborers who helped build the railroads were treated much better in Mexico than they were in the US

lots of chinese goods for sale in Mexico...except that they are better quality than you can buy in the US...and i am sure the chinese haven't forgiven the American involvement in helping put down the boxer rebellion...i wouldn't if it was me


the money men could wear a silk glove....there is a Red shield bank in Beijing...

could be... could be...

still listening for the jingle of the coins

Buela said...

@ Buggs!!!!
RE: E1

WHOOOOT WHOOOOT! Say it brother....

I honestly thought this fucker was one that could give good debate and perhaps insight, though mentally skewed I looked for good discussion......

and then I touched a nerve, one that he refuses now to have dialog with me just thows out insults and names...why? Because I was challenging him to think out of his teeny box of hate and rehashed radical ideology, I wanted him to answer direct questions and he displayed a human that is not only one demenional, but one who cares nothing about the people of Mx. I touched the one nerve this asshole has, now I am off limits "Hussy Buela" ( that did make me laugh)

My father was uneducated, a farm worker in his youth, but he was the most brilliant man I have ever known. He allowed me to find my way, to try different religions, ideology & when I became a conservative, he was shaking his head a bit but also admired my independence and said to me that I learned one of the great lessons in life...walk strong in your belief but ALWAYS keep an open mind. WIth E1 his thinking is not only wrong, ignorant, radical but also dangerous. and when challenged he has the inability to think outside his rhetoric. A simple mind spoon fed fed propaganda by some group of crazies.

Hey E1- I am a proud American of Mexican ancestry, I love Mexico and it has been an honor to embrace its people and my culture during my years of working in its beautiful land. I am a patriot, a conservative,a christian, I believe in small tax, little government, social responsibilty being a choice BUT also a personal responsibilty. I believe private enterprise can out do anything the government attempts. I believe that to whom much is given, much is required, but that everyone has a duty to help others. I believe our concern or responsibilty should transcend state lines and national borders that we should care for the children of the world in the same way we care of our own. I believe in family being the anchor and fuel of our character and moral compass. I believe in the goodness of people and know there is far more good than evil in the world. I believe that a great measure of a society is measured by how they treat their weak, their disabled.

But I also believe that my country is flawed, it has warts and has been a part of some shameful history. But after 30 yrs of living and working in places like Malaysia, Indonesia, Philliphines, Viet Nam, Taiwan, Mainland China, Europe, Central and north america, I can say I am blessed, I am grateful to be born in and live in the greatest country in the world.

I have no idea what the fuck you believe in. I only know what you believe against. One demensional E-1.


Paz,

La Hussy Buela

Anonymous said...

Hussy Buela, hahahahaha! That is some funny playback! Too bad there is a need to attack Abuela this way, a person that does more for people than we ever will.

But life in Borderland beat is never easy for anyone!

In Borderland Beat we get our daily dose of Mexican cartel happenings, latest decapitation pictures of the day, and the drama over at the comments lounge!

Addicting I tell you!

La Hussy Buela said...

@ Anon 11:46AM

I must say I laughed out loud and hard at E1 calling me a "strange hussy".

As for him callings me a liar...not true, my dad said "if your tell the truth you don't have to rely on good memory". As for my bad words. Yep sometimes "fuck" is the only word that gets it. That aside, I have never used drugs, been drunk, been arrested, been fired, failed academically. My parents, tios, children most friends and rarely my employees have every heard a bad word more than "shit" out of me. WHen I was a single mom I never brought a man home for the night out of respect for my children. I do know the meaning of respect, very well.

I am not religious in the sense I camp out in the pews, but I live my life conscientiously faithful to my belief in God, and work my days grateful to be able to work for Him.

By his rantings, I guess E1 to be around 60s. any cuteness he ever had has long faded. He is left embittered, unchallenged and stuck in the 60s. I know him, oh not personally, but his ugly head rears up here and there in life. When I come across these antiques I always chuckle thinking "oh there you are! I thought you were long gone" . WHat a waste of intelligence.

I told him name calling and school yard tactics wear ugly on any adult but worse on an old man. He goes after Brito incessively trying now to imply Brito is uneducated, he misspelled Berkeley...BFD...are we to edit our posts? correct our typos? Then he himself follows it up with a grammar flawed sentence. Guess Ernie "got no education" either.

Paz,

La Hussy Buela..

Matanzas said...

@Buggs & 'Brito

Have you read Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine? I'm sure you have. So you know who is/will benefit from MX collapse. And this will happen. The making of a failed state. What a show. With blood and guts.

China's interest is towards raw materials and new markets, thus their recent investment in Africa. Their problem is to control their growth, not create instability in the backyard of their largest market. MX is not on their radar. They have their hands full with NK and Burma already.

Anyway you guys started a good conversation here.

Matanzas said...

Hey, Hussy Abuela, how are you doing? Failed your pre-op he? Sorry to hear that. Take care.

Buela said...

Hey Matanzas...

Yep just a little set back...Monday morning should be the day...

Paz...

Hussy

'lito 'brito said...

@ B hussy


jajaja..thats the best one yet...it sounds like it was said with a flip of the wrist and a toss of the head.....a la castro street san fran,....jajajajaja...you hussy you.....jajajaja


oh that hussy B ..she thinks she is just so smart...i could just claw her eyes out...jajajjajaaaa...pretty funny...

and all i got was burrito man....i am celoso..hahaha...

walking away shaking head and laughing...

'lito 'brito said...

@ Mata..


yeah it seems they ( the chines) would want stability and the lanes of commerce to stay open

the only thing about the shock doctrine theory that dosen't seem to apply is that Mexico dosen't need to be destroyed to be rebuilt..it is almost a blank slate already, and the people are eager for development

i am not sure how deep Mexico is in debt...but i would guess some ...maybe the elites in Mexico are intransigent and greedy...similiar to the old french aristocracy...they already owned everything and were hard to bargain with...maybe that is it...it is to get rid of the upper class Mexicans and replace them with cooperative stooges...


what ever it is and whoever is holding the strings , it seems that they want to exacerbate tensions between the USA and Mexico ...with Calderon blaming the USA for the problem ...and the USA blaming Calderon's ineffectiveness...Calderon was the choice of the puppet bush regime..it wouldn't be the first time a head of state was setup...Saddam H and Kuwait was a prime example...

and it wouldn't bee the first time American soldiers were used to kill for reasons that were not actually in their own benefit

with recent revelations about Mexican drug traffic spreading to Australia and western Africa ...it could well be the hidden hand is attempting to take control of it ...it is one of the lucrative businesses they are rumored to like to dominate


he biggest mystery of all the cartel players are the Z"s...they are everywhere...seem to have money..resources...but no real plaza...and seem to be content to wreak general terrorism...and are least impacted by the war...on the contrary , like cancer they spread ...these guys started out as deserters, traidores, and mercenarys ...just the perfect guys to work to destabilize a country...

what ever happened to Mier did they get evicted or what ...i expected to hear of the army surround the town and killing them all...but the whole thing just seemed to fade away...

i can't help but wonder who is financing them...

'lito 'brito said...

@ B


and such a dirty girl too...such language....jajajjaa

'lito 'brito said...

yeah i caught that "got no education" remark ...but let it pass...on telegraph ave.,you don't get no education...depending on the time of day you might get mugged , cursed out , or arrested...the proper spelling is berserkley anyway...I used to squat there and sell things on the street...what a fukn zoo..oopppssss!!!!cussin an bad spelln to all at tha same time ...oh my god ...how offensive wrist flip,,, head toss....jajajajaja....and it is not a good place to sell either

Buela said...

@ Brito

as I stated my father was uneducated, but brilliant, pragmatic, wise, caring, and the best person I have ever known, he was the hero in my life. Formal education is not the end all, the must have, some people have a inate sense of logic and sensibilty that all the books in the world cannot teach. the fact is that there are many highly educated derelicts that find themselves living on a park bench because of the inabilty to interact with people, or society, non acceptance, all black, dark mental attitude. It really is such a waste of life.

Not saying I am against education, hell no, I am one of the greatest proponents of formal education, and my op is that until Mx has an educational system for all people that has parity they will always be stuck, lacking the ability to seek leaders from a wide base rather than from the narrow/corrupt choices that has always existed.

Just saying...formal education is not needed to be intelligent, one has nothing to do with the other.

Hussy..

PS..me & my friend were speaking of my new found hussiness, I say I must be Hussy sleep-walking cuz I am not remembering a thing...I feel kinda cheated.

Anonymous said...

I know you are all that....

'Hey E1- I am a proud American of Mexican ancestry, I love Mexico and it has been an honor to embrace its people and my culture during my years of working in its beautiful land. I am a patriot, a conservative,a christian, I believe in small tax, little government, social responsibilty being a choice BUT also a personal responsibilty. I believe private enterprise can out do anything the government attempts.'

So why does everybody go into a big huff when I say that most of you posting here are quite conservative, Buela? In fact, you and your many supporters on this blog are just what I said you are... US CONSERVATIVES.

When I say such though, I then get told I will soon learn about censorship. YOU say it about yourself and everybody blows you kisses! Go figure?

Ernest1

ajulio said...

sorry to disagree with you buela but private enterprise is what is killing our economy. capitalism is good when these corporations create domestic labor but we all know that these greedy business men are all cold hearted, self-centered capitalists and we all know that the U.S. has become a capitalist nation. under these circumstances, capitalism is very bad.

capitalism is bad because big business' are destroying small business' by outsourcing and creating cost savings that small business cannot compete with. big corporations are also responsible for destroying the oil and gold indusrty as well as the stock market. not to mention the health care system and the real estate market.

without a tax raise on the extremely wealthy and higher tariffs, we will never recover from our failing economy. so capitalism is good and bad but modern capitalism is bad. i'm glad that the government has interfered with the auto industry and is changing the health care "business". we need a little more government sometimes or else why have a government at all? with less government, the corporations run everything and destroy everything.

i have noticed that the most important issue with the republicans is usually "taxes". they just don't want anyone touching their money. it was funny watching them cry like little babies when obama became president.

@buela

i wish you the best of luck once again with your surgery. godspeed hussy

Hussy Buela 2 E1 XOXO...Part 1 said...

@ E1
Hola.. couldn't stay away my troubled friend? I promise you this, If you ask a question and I see it, I will always respect your right to ask and try to answer it. if however you are messing with me to perch on your soapbox of tired tirade I will cease. Being impassioned I can respect, being obnoxious for the sake of being so I can no longer waste my time.
you ask; "So why does everybody go into a big huff when I say that most of you posting here are quite conservative, Buela? In fact, you and your many supporters on this blog are just what I said you are... US CONSERVATIVES.
When I say such though, I then get told I will soon learn about censorship. YOU say it about yourself and everybody blows you kisses! Go figure.
Let me figure this out for you..
I truthfully have not noticed any unbalance of liberals, or conservatives, but then again I am not looking for a tally. one notices what one wishes , your mindset is driven by a limited agend;, spread hate and insult especially to conservatives. Your hate has prevented you from seeing beyond ideology. you judge within that narrow structure. if one, let's say Hussy, if Hussy stands her ground, is open about her beliefs but respectful to others with a different belief, she still resides in the E1 list of hate and distain. That must be a very lonely & sad place to reside all these years. You think that only conservatives read BB because that is the only reader you seek..you are on a mission to taunt, ridicule, issue silly insults & childish name calling. You turn people off by this behavior, and everyone stops listening to your message only reacting in anger to your behavior.
When you make a ridiculous statement such as only conservatives read BB I know everyone is saying WTF? Is he blind? well yes you are, you seek your mission and nothing more. I could fire back to you and say "it is because liberals don't give a rats ass other Mx and the atrocities there, this is proof that only conservatives care!" and I could give you proof stating, "I have met wonderful Americans and Europeans in Mx, NGOs, 501C3s as I am, and I am yet to meet a liberal pounding the ground doing good work in Mx so that is proof Liberals do not care!" While true that I am yet to meet that liberal founder of a non-profit it would be a huge untruth that liberals do not care. Americans are the most caring country in the world. I love that about us, and I believe there are more things that keep us together than tear us apart. 80% of my extended family and friends in California are liberal, some ultra liberal, 80% of my friends in Tx are conservative some ultra conservative. We have lively debates and I have even swayed some folks by giving a respectful fact driving argument . Radicalism/extremism is the most destructive thing in the world. All bad comes from that dark place. I am a fiscal conservative, after doing business in 12 countries including (2 communist) I know what the world has up close and personal. Technology has made the world permanently changed. It is as simple to conduct business in communist China as it is in California, correction, far easier. The US will bow to China and India if we do not shake off yesteryear of unions, and high taxes that make us Mfg run for our lives. Pls don't attack that remark leave it for a private discussion I could not do it a service in this forum. People listen to talking points media stars to formulate opinions way too much, these are the same media folks that bitch about the rich then jump on their private jet . I follow no one but my own ability to study any issue myself.

Buela 2 E1 part 2 XOXO said...

@ E1 part 2

For example Brito. (sorry Brito, but bear w/me it's all good) He is a fellow I am very fond of. He is also a liberal. read his disagreement with me on my conservative views, he clearly states his position, but remains respectful and charming. He is a guy I know I would love to call friend, a man that has a compassionate heart so big and caring that I am tempted to take him along on a project, perhaps to help Zapatistas or to Haiti to build schools with me. We are different in political platform for sure, but share a compassionate heart. I was a liberal in my college days, my cousin, now a superior court judge, fresh from Vietnam and myself marched with Caesar Chavez and the United farm workers of the central valley. My father was a farm worker. My grandparents immigrants. it may surprise you to know I would march again today if circumstance were the same today. They are not, but there remains work to do for the cause. I am socially liberal in the sense of some big issues of pro choice, say no and marriage being a right between two adults opposite sex or same. Life is complicated and it is incumbent on us to seek answers for ourselves.
in closing...
You do not get blown kisses because of your presentation. I expected more from you and thought you were a person that held great promise for lively debate and intellectual banter. But I was disappointed when you could not veer from your radical propaganda to answer a question, one question, nada. You are incapable, you are the wizard of oz, the depth of a Hollywood movie set, one song Sam. when you realize you are losing, out pops the meanness, childish name calling and failed attempts to demean other readers .
You asked me to "go figure" ....the aforementioned is what I figure....as always just my DOS CENTAVOS. But thanks E1...I woke up in horrible pain and concentrating on this reply took my mind off a bit.
Paz.....La Hussy

'lito 'brito said...

@ beela


we are not about to lose you are we???...i hope you are ok out there...

it really gives a perspective on how peoples perceptions can be influenced....people marching in support of LFM...calling for peace....strange ...almost wag the dog ...really shows deep discontent and distrust of the Mexican govt...

brings up the question of just what does make a "good guy"...a benevolent criminal organization?...with family and religious values...the patriotic guys? ( the soldados?) who fight them...guys who fight them for money or to attain political influence? ( Calderon?)...whoever wins out will glorify themselves and demonize the defeated...when people feel alienated from the rest of the group and feel that "god" is with them ..it adds a whole new dynamic to the struggle...

the pot cultivation in Michoacan echos the situation in some parts of the US where people openly say that they need to be able to grow marijuana as an economic base , because there is nothing else , and the government is not interested in helping through economic development...

now the govt is seen as an invading force there to take away the lively hood of the people

once again it goes back to the disparity in distribution of wealth in Mexico....

obviously some of the people feel so disenfranchised that they are willing to look elsewhere for answers to their needs...including seeking autonomy, with a drug cartel as the effective government


this is a major problem for the gob de Mexico...and reflects glaringly to the core of the whole Mexican culture of lawlessness

PS.. thanks for saying i am a good guy...i am, mas o menos...but for sure all compliments are appreciated...

we sure started out going at it , and i am sure we will differ from time to time ...but i will always appreciate your opinions and the civil way you put them forth

if being a conservationist makes me a liberal..OK..if being for a strong country both physically and fiscally makes me a conservative ..OK...if thinking it is alright for people to go around naked if they want to makes me a liberal ..OK....if being a bit of an isolationist makes me a conservative ..OK...

i do not adhere to any strict doctrine in order to promote "my sides" agenda...

to me parrots are still parrots no matter what color the feathers, or who cleans the cage

I am trying to fly a little higher , see the big picture and prepare for what is coming over the horizon...

self preservation, preserves the whole


hope you get to feeling better ...hussy

ajulio said...

Yeah buela, i hope you are ok too. Please let us know when everything turns out good.

'lito 'brito said...

@ AJ

to me there are two kinds of capitalism...one which i call barter capitalism...where money is bartered in lieu of the actual article being traded...

the other is what i call pure capitalism in which money is used as a tool and is traded ultimately only for other money..

in one you are trading for something you need and money is just a scrip that serves to represent that thing...

and the other in which the whole object is to acquire more money...

the latter if left unregulated is usually a disaster for the first system


the first i consider "good" capitalism...the second "bad " capitalism

what we have running the show on this earth today is the latter

Anonymous said...

Brite, so you are a Libertarian....

'the first i consider "good" capitalism...the second "bad " capitalism
what we have running the show on this earth today is the latter'

Libertarians are always in love with an imaginary capitalism that does not and cannot ever exist except in their heads, and supposedly disdain the capitalism that does exist yet at each possible opportunity are actually defending most of what makes it so rotten!

Ernest1

ajulio said...

yeah brito, there is a good and a bad in everything. the problem is, the filthy rich have made it a habit to overindulge in money consumption and excessive spending and self-pleasure. they create their own high societies and use middle class money to splurge on products that only the rich can afford while the middle class continue to buy their products.

these filthy rich business people(they are not humans) store all of their money in the banks and spend the rest of the money on mansions, bentleys, $10,000 hookers, cohiba cigars, french wine, and evian water to bathe in. that money does'nt really circulate.

limitations should never be forced on a person's success(that would undermine our constitution). but the filthy rich should at least pay higher taxes and corporations should pay higher tariffs.

look at what this scumbag bernie madoff did. he is known for being the operator of the largest ponzi scheme in history defrauding thousands of investors of billions of dollars. where did all of that money go?

something better be done soon our else the united states is going to collapse.

ajulio said...

@ buela

i hope your surgery came out good. this panel would'nt be the same without you.

ajulio said...

Well lito, ernest apperantly views you as a dumb dreamer with no education. I am not a libertarian but i do believe in living my life, my way and respecting others who do the same as long as you don't hurt anyone else and everyone respects each other.

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