Monday, February 11, 2019

El Chapo Trial: If Chapo is acquitted-can he be tried elsewhere? What about double jeopardy?

Chivis Martinez Borderland Beat-TY Un Vato my go to legal mind

From Today: The jury has asked if they must decide unanimously when considering the “violations”  sub-counts in Count 1 of the indictment:
Count 1: (Continuing Criminal Enterprise) It would appear they are split in some way with no movement. 



I asked my most trusted legal mind the “what if?” Acquittal, double jeopardy or another trial elsewhere

His answer

There is no getting around double jeopardy if Chapo is acquitted. The only way to avoid double jeopardy is to charge him with a different crime that has different facts or different elements. One way is to charge him in state courts because state laws often require proof of different elements to convict for the same actions that are violations of federal law. To obtain federal jurisdiction over a defendant, a federal prosecutor must show that (1) the defendant violated federal law, or, (2) the defendant crossed state lines in the commission of a crime defined under state law.

For example, we were able to convict a fuel distributor in federal court when we proved he loaded his trucks in New Mexico and delivered gas in AZ or TX to avoid NM fuel tax, a violation of state law. The fact that he did it the other way (load in TX and deliver in NM) to avoid TX fuel tax added to the charges. I initiated and supervised that investigation from NM and convinced the other states to join us and got the FBI and the federal prosecutor to take the case. What gave the feds jurisdiction was the fact the distributor crossed state lines to violate state laws. NM Governor Johnson had to sign almost 200 letters of appreciation for every member of the investigation team.

The feds very likely had cases pending in other jurisdictions (actually, other judicial districts) or in state courts in case this prosecution failed. That is still true; the other cases will allege different facts and different violations, some of them violations of state law. Chapo has no realistic chance of going free anytime soon.

Chapo could very likely to cut a deal because his lawyers know that even if he is acquitted in this case, he will likely spend years in court for different charges. Also, there is the continuing problem of paying his lawyers. Even if he is acquitted, forfeiture laws have different evidentiary requirements. I don't think Chapo can use his money even after acquittal. I can see how the feds would make a case for money laundering if Chapo ever managed to get money into his lawyers' hands.

So then, why haven't the parties started plea negotiations? Simple answer: neither side has anything to lose if they wait until the verdict is in. Even if Chapo is acquitted, the feds will not enter negotiations until the verdict is in. In that event, Chapo would be taken into custody immediately on the other charges I suspect the feds have pending. Likewise, for the defense, an acquittal would strengthen their position in negotiating a favorable deal for pending charges. Simply stated, a verdict either way will most clearly define the parties' bargaining positions. Best way not to waste time and money.

So, while I do not believe Chapo will be acquitted, I think both sides have already planned for either eventuality. I also think Chapo waited too long to turn snitch. His information is stale by now.

60 comments:

  1. Its been a week,we are now thinking like i said before,these guys got a hold of a jurors family mememver something,even OJ trial was quick...something fishy going on...mexican say....with money u dance like a dog and without it u dance like a dog in misery very true

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    1. you can't be serious? How about they are doing their job? OJ was in 4 hrs after NINE MONTHS of trial--that was jury nulification.

      interesting. the DA made an egregious mistake by moving the trial from brentwood/bev hils to downtown.

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    2. How about they’re being fair? They want to ensure everyone has fully understood each charge. Maybe some people don’t remember some parts, or remember scarcely, and want to review it again.

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    3. I agree with u 100% Chivis no need to pay off jurors. I said it from the start. The feds dont have an easy case.. G.C.

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    4. More like; with money u make dog dance, with out ot u dance like a dog.

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  2. Acquired, not in a million years. And yeah he can be tried in Mexico for sure. Don’t forget this man committed crimes in two different countries.

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  3. I wish Chapo Guzman freedom,if you’re gonna lock him up let’s lock up presidents,US Bankers,Top heads of DEA,FBI,PGR all the corrupt officials.

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    1. amlo won't be prosecuting any presidents, ya hasta dijo que no iba a enjuiciar a EPN

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    2. So because not every corrupt person is arrested, we should let all other corrupt people go? I find that questionable.

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    3. Lock your keyboard up so you stop making stupid comments. We would lock the whole world up if it was up to you.

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    4. I hope he is freed as well ke siga la mata dando! Puro triángulo de oro terre del chapo!

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    5. 152 lol keep dreaming, Mexico can't even catch, corrupted members of government.

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  4. El Chapo will never escape the Americans. It doesn't matter what the trial outcome is, the CIA will kill him one way or the other, my guess it will be an accident or chapo will get diagnosed with cancer ect. The CIA has given all of the south american leaders that opposed the U.S. cancer heres a list: Argentine President Cristina de Kirchner,Former Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, Paraguayan President Fernando Lugo, Brazil's President Dilma Rousseff. All of them opposed the United States all of them died of cancer. CIA involved in every country listed.

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  5. Deliberation can take weeks, all they need is someone to say they don't believe he's guilty.. if he pulls it off it would be very interesting.. all he needs is one gangster fan girl or a chapo fan and he's walking free . You never know

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  6. No matter what the outcome, the DEA will NEVER let him go. They will just bring in other charges...

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    1. can't trust them, they probably have a few more charges up their sleeves.

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  7. If Chaponis aquited then it shows money does buy liberty!
    Rich people commit crimes as much as non rich people. Just that they can afford to pay their way out.

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  8. He will be in prison, now they are deciding, as to how many years.

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  9. Trocas llenas de chelas por la pacific en hp si el patron sale librado de esta!!!!!!

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    1. Asi es viejon ahi por la longbeach y firestone

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    2. Y unos pinches pipasos de crystal!!

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    3. A wilson got them fire crackers ready from vegas at the ready homie. Puro pa delante!!!!

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    4. Yo ya me puse mi camiza de mexico con el 701 en la espalda! Tengo lista la matraca parientes.

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  10. Well theres on juror thats gonna walk out of there a multimillionaire if hes aquitted!why not? John gotti did it in one of his many trials so its not totally impossible for chapo either!

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    1. John Gotti paid off a juror?

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    2. Yes Gotti paid off a Juror. But Gotti was a new yorker it would be alot harder for chapo as he wouldnt have the network like gotti had new york.

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    3. @7:57 Chapos network is worldwide, it could be possible that his ppl get to anyone of them. New York for chapo is just a dot on a map for his organization

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    4. 7:57 oh wow!!! 🤯

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    5. 757. Hmm the world bigger then New York.

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  11. L O L Just really enjoying the moment. This scum is going the way of Noriega. As he should and surely will. Rot in hell you slimy Cowardly bastard. Put lil chapo in a cell with Noriega, I'm lovin it.

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    1. I’m sure you’re a coward too talking smack behind a screen lmao keyboard warrior

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    2. noriega is dead

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    3. Are u using mcdirties wifi looser? "Am loving it" tf is wrong with this lames

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  12. All my comrades from La Gente Nueva Special Forces await the return to Culiacan Sinaloa of El Seńor. We bought a trailer full of bullets to shoot up in the air in celebration.

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    1. Sicario006 u are the shit...

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    2. A trailer full of bullets 😂

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    3. Lol hope lola la trailera makes the delivery got my haifone for the selfies y mi cuerno pa las valas ready camarada!!!

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    4. Liar! Stop trying to say you are something you are not, wanna be plastico bullshit

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    5. This comment @9:54 proves some people are still behind time, far from understanding and differencing a real statement from a manufactured statement.

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  13. They said there were no escapes from Alcatraz but 3 guys got away. Don't underestimate Chapo. He is extremely intelligent just waiting for the right opportunity

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  14. If chapo is free I wonder if he's going to go against everyone that ratted on him. Mayo would shit his pants, maybe even mencho lol

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    1. Hope he gets rid of them. The world will be way a better place.

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  15. Arriva yo , mi apa, y el chapo.
    Y la chona se mueve🎵🎶

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  16. If you disregard the crooked witnesses buying reduced sentences, the jury would not wish to be accomplices to worse people getting off, then jury focuses on any real proof like ledgers etc, and find that Chapo did not personally accept any shipments, and no real proof exists. The jury is doing their job. Better Chapo goes free that a bunch of criminals like the accusers. All thats left is some recorded calls should get him 3 years probation, thats typical, 1st offense ya know...

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    1. Keep dreaming 851, there's ton of evidence....getting out lol. I can't stop laughing.

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  17. To me it almost seems like they did get to a juror..why else would the defense call 1 pretty useless witness..then post pics of tequila to celebrate?seems like they have an ace up their sleeve and they know it..they literally made no effort because they know they didnt have to..

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  18. Acquitted ? Hell he will be gone before the verdict . They are probably under the courthouse right now . Constructing a chute that will drop him to the tunnel below . He will suddenly stand up and yell Catch Me If You Can Im The Gingerbread Man . Then he will suddenly drop out of sight . They will never find him once he gets to the tunnels under new York .

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    1. And Chapo squims through the tunnels of the Metro, unfortunately he gets hit by a train, ending the life of the kingpin of narco.

      Luna Apaghta

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  19. Most of you posting comments seem to have forgotten that Chapo Guzmán has pending indictments in the federal courts of Chicago, Phoenix, and San Diego. No matter the outcome of this trial he is still subject to prosecution in these federal district courts where he was indicted for a variety of federal offenses unrelated to the charges alleged in New York. Guzmán isn’t leaving the U.S. any time soon.

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    1. did you even read the post? I have read the SD and Chicago indictments they are essentially the same charges and would be double jeopardy.

      AND this, as chivis said, is the most expensive trial in history, no one will prosecute him US attys will cut a deal

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  20. He has several indictments in several other jurisdictions. He is heading to ADX regardless.

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  21. Count 1 is the centerpiece of the prosecution’s case—unfortunately it is extremely confusing and difficult to wade through.
    Count 1 is continued criminal enterprise with 27 sub-counts or violations,
    The jury must find guilty in at least 3-if that happens a mandatory life sentence will be imposed.
    2 or fewer, means not guilty of Count 1 and no life sentence
    It must be unanimous-remember a jury note posed the question if it must be unanimous
    Alan Feuer: If the jury sends a note saying there's a verdict today, that's not good for Chapo. If the jury sends a note saying they want more evidence, it's still not great for him. But if the jury sends a note hinting at more dissension that would mark a turning point in the deliberations.

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  22. @ chivis what happen to the Barbie and why didn't he testified against chapo

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  23. Was Chapo charged w/ murder? Not a lawyer, but isn't *double jeopardy* only for murder trials? i.e. if, the defendant is acquitted or found innocent,he/she can't be charged & tried for the same crime, again. I do happen to think he should be returned to Mexico, but doubt this will happen during the trump presidency.

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