Thursday, September 17, 2015

Second Ayotzingapa normalista has been identified, parents reject "findings", experts say possibility is "low"

Lucio R. Borderland Beat
update at bottom
Jhosivani's sister stands before his photo
He was once misidentified as the normalista whose face was flayed and eyes removed.  His parents went to the Forensic Medical Service (Semefo) of Iguala.  Martina de la Cruz, touched the corpse of the young man, without a face, without eyes, and knew it was not her son. “This young man is not my son”, she said while touching the hands of the body mistaken of being Jhosivani Guerrero de la Cruz.

The student without a face was later identified as Julio Cesar Mondragon, a young husband and father of a new born.  Julio, who was Los Angeles born and raised, was later that day identified by his widow, who said she did so by identifying his hands and shirt, a shirt she bought for him. 

(the couple is in the photo below left)

Julio was normalista #44, for  he was never counted among those, the world would come to know as the #43.

The experience of seeing Julio, thinking it was her son, was a shock to Martina, another trauma she, and her husband Margarito had to endure in the hours after receiving word that their son Jhosivani was dead.

For days Martina de la Cruz, slept on the floor of the Normalista school, the floor where Jhosivani had slept prior to September 26, 2014.  The waited for further news on the whereabouts of their son. 

Their wait continued until today, when the analysis of mitochondrial DNA of Jhosivani Guerrero and his mother, revealed a match to remains discovered among evidence collected by the forensic anthropology team working on the case.

The University of Innsbruck in Austria, identified the remains of Jhosivani Guerrero de la Cruz, one of the 43 missing normalistas Ayotzinapa between 26 and 27 September 2014. Guerrero de la Cruz is the second normalista identified.
Alexander Mora's parents are yet to receive the bone identified as their son
The first remains were identified from normalista Alexander Mora Venancio. In December 2014, the Argentine Forensic Anthropology Team (EAAG) discovered the remains.

In November of that year, the PGR sent to the University of Innsbruck in Austria.  The analysis was conducted at the Central Laboratory DNA of Austria.

Furthermore, on 1 September, the PGR delivered to the University of Innsbruck 53 Ayotzinapa case related objects. The PGR announced that samples were reviewed and classified by experts of the agency and by the Argentine Forensic Anthropology Team (EAAF). Jhosivani was identified in the September samples.
Jhosivani's father Margarito holds a photo of his son

Jhosivani was 20, he was nicknamed "Korean" and wanted to be a teacher in Omeapa.

The following is from the “Todos Somos Ayotzinapa” website.

"He was looking for an opportunity to excel, he aspired to have a job that would help the community.
We are from Omeapa, a community that is 15 minutes from Tixtla  municipality, although we are close to Tixtla, the people live with lack of public services and many basic needs. 

In order to go to high school, Jhosivani had to walk two miles up the road, to take the shuttle, and then walked the same two miles back. 

His entire family is dedicated to agriculture, he was looking an opportunity to excel when he applied for Normal (Rural) Teaching School Ayotzinapa.

He aspired to have a career and help the community, because in Omeapa the teachers are from faraway places so the teachers have no interest in Omeapa ́s children, and frequently leave the job, with no replacement.

So if the children want a better education, they have to go to schools at Tixtla,  Because of this Jhosivani wanted to be a teacher in Omeapa.”

Parents refute PGR findings, translated by Mexico Voices

Felipe de la Cruz, spokesman for parents of the 43 disappeared Ayotzinapa students, rejected the report presented yesterday by the Office of the Attorney General (PGR), which asserts that some of the remains sent to the laboratory of the University of Innsbruck, in Austria, might be those of Jhosivani Guerrero.

Interviewed by telephone, De la Cruz said that with this information and that of some newscasters it is intended to undermine the report presented by experts [Interdisciplinary Group of Independent Experts, IGIE] from the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR):

"We knew that there was going to be a response from the federal government to refute the IGIE's report:

"The problem is that now the PGR says the remains are his [Jhosivani Guerrero's], because there is only a slight match, and it is very low.

"We do not accept the PGR's report, and we will not [accept it] until they verify it scientifically. For now we are going to wait for what the members of the Argentine team of experts tells us. We're going to meet with them now."

The opinion of the Argentine forensic experts is that:

"the probabilities are very low that they are his (Jhosivani Guerrero), but the Attorney General managed it as if it were a fact that the remains are his."


  1. This is what they might say...
    "He appears to be dead, as a result of a technical error in court."

    1. There never going to find them cause they were dissolved in acid

  2. I see, the government is giving up one little bone of anyone once a year to be "identified"...

  3. Who's doing something about all this I mean the government who?????

    1. Damn it no ones doing freakin nothing damn it! The mexican government is the biggest freackin scam ive ever seen damn it!! You got that freackin sissy in office pena nieto whos to busy traveling the damn world, when that bastard should be solving the corruption damn it! A bunch of freackin scam artist demons damn it giving the parents the wrong freackin body!!!

  4. "moderate" chance they match: "Data of mitochondrial DNA obtained from bone sample 16-29102014 provided moderate evidence for profile victim 16-29102014, matching the mother of disappeared Jhosivani Guerrero de la Cruz."

    MODERATE?? Hardly sounds definitive. Except for Mexico law enforcement.

  5. May Jhosivani and Alexander rest peacefully. Let there be justice for all their lives and these 43 deaths.

    1. 3 collateral casualties which do not count...
      43 students disappeared...
      3 killed on the spot, left there...
      1student found with face skin peeled off...
      --(nobody says if with the same 'potatoe' peeler used in the narvarte murders or on Erika Kassandra Bravo Caro in uruapan mich, or on el Gordo Valencia and family murders)
      Funny how in the middle of all of it, the military did not "get" involved, or the many police corporations, it must have been orders from above, miguel angel osorio chong specializes in this kind of shit, AND HE IS IN CHARGE OF IT...HE HAS EARNED HIS POSITION CONDUCTING EXACTLY THIS KIND OF SHIT FOR HIS MASTERS...IF HE WANTS TO BE PRESIDENTE SOMEDAY...
      --exactly the same shit happened in Chile 42 years ago, only lately chilean army elements that participated have been talking and pointing fingers, victims of 5he dictatorship demand that the armed forces own the deeds performed by their predecessors and break their PACT OF SILENCE...
      --Are we ready to wait 40+ years to find out what the hell is happening in mexico?

    2. Maybe military needs to do a coup.It has happened in some countries rebelling against the powers that be.After all they have the weapons and are in a much better position than the average laymen to do this on their own.

    3. The soldiers with honor a d dignity need to clean up their own ranks, they k ow things, but have no balls, no honor, no dignity, no pride, they are slaves of a few corrupt ginirals and their henchmen, bound by a false sense of duty to their superior officers, and their corrupt politicians, never mind duty to the country or their countrymen, mexican soldiers need to have made it clear what the job IS,
      --mexican soldiers are silent partners of the genocide and terrorism of state...

    4. Maybe someday the truth will come out and it will be known that the army was responsible and incinerated the the students. With so many witnesses and people being tortured something would have led the government to where the students are. It would have to be the government to be the ones covering up this tragedy. Unless someone who participated from the military grows a heart and talks, his will never be solved to the point where someone pays for this crime. To cremate the bodies so no evidence could be found it would have to have been in the military crematorium. There is a reason no one was allowed to investigate the military compound. Rolling bloody bodies and dragging them would have left evidence at the trash site where they were supposedly burned. There would be skin, broken teeth, hair or more at that site. One could not be careful enough to dispose of that many bodies and not leaving any trace evidence in that area. Impossible. If it is shown the military did it EPN would have major problems to deal with.

  6. That young man, who decided that, he wanted to try to make things better for his community. So, that others could have a better chance, for an opportunity, in life. What a wonderful soul, he had to have been. His family, had obviously taught, and raised him well. He could have easily, fell into the same type criminal lifestyle of fast, easy money. Like so many others, who, in his place could do, would do and have done. Instead,he chose a much better alternative. Not only for his sake, but for the sake of those in his community, and the world would have been a better place for it. He knew, it was something that's needed,..and, he was doing his part, to try to make that happen, make it a reality. Someone, like Mr. Guerrero, hasn't only been taken from his family and community,he's been taken from the world.Such a dark, damned place, are the minds of those who can even think to do such things as, what was done to him and all the others.

  7. i would not even bother to hound the governmant anyfurther . fuck that corrupt country . Don't have children anymore Mexicans . your country is no place to bring up a family.

    1. 6:20 thanks for quitting, even if nothing is happening to you, wherever you at... goodbye!!!

  8. My two cents:

    This is in fact false, I believe the first findings were probably also false.

    Alexander Mora's parents have not received his "remains". Gob is aware the family will retest. Alexander is the first student "identified".

    as for the second student Jhosivani, my belief that these are bogus findings is even higher.

    Jhosivani's father Margarito Guerrero, is a spokesman for the advocacy group of parents who have been relentless in taking their story outside and within Mexico. Margarito has been very vocal and a pain in the ass of the EPN gob.

    It would not be out of the realm of high probability, that the gob magically discovered another match for evidence discovered "at the dump", in an attempt to bolster their bogus story of a mass cremation.

    this falls on the heels of the IGIE report dispelling the official report of Mexican Gob. and it would also be unsurprising that Jhosivani would be the name they picked to attach to the "remains match". This would be another way to hurt Margarito who has been a determine advocate and critic of EPN gob.

    I wonder if anyone can shed some light as to why they would only use mt-DNA.

    Both father and mother area alive and have given DNA samples, so why would they end up with only mtDNA results?

    1. DNA gets destroyed by the heat, you will be lucky if mtDNA works, and anyway, the samples given by families of the disappeared got mixed up from the get go...
      --The mexican governing narco-mierdocracia is just playing with us on all fronts...
      --what is needed is to put La Chicharra en el fundillo de osorio chong...he knows what happened, as Secretario de Gobernacion it is his job to do or get shit like this done...
      --if he wants to be presidente next...after epn...or manlio fabio beltrones

    2. See new Ed-Oak post on Forum.

    3. @Sept 18, 6:31AM

      "DNA gets destroyed by heat"

      According to who? Source? Can you elaborate? You could burn a human body down to the bones and sometimes still extract DNA from teeth pulp. It all depends on how much heat, duration of it and other factors.

    4. If a burned bone has not been altered to the point of calcination there may be enough organic matrix to extract genetic material. The larger the bone the greater the possibility. Not so with ash remains. There are those who claim mtDNA can be extracted from ash, but these claims have been refuted.

      Mexico’s claim of retrieving ash from lake water and testing it is ridiculous.

    5. if teeth remain after from a calcination of a body there is a good chance dna has been protected in its pulp.

      In this case there were no teeth discovered. testing was that of bones. and the fact the government will not give the bones to the victims family, goes a long way in calling the match bullshit.

  9. The student with the face skinned off is an American? Do you know how long he had been living in Mexico?

  10. El Gil, purported leader of GU reported to be arrested per BBC.

  11. I always remember Julio Cesar Mondragon.and his story,,he had just become a new dad (he held the baby once?) with his beautiful wife..
    And then animals and horror entered their lives,,,to leave the young dude like that ?
    Words fuckin fail you ?

  12. I always remember Julio Cesar Mondragon.and his story,,he had just become a new dad (he held the baby once?) with his beautiful wife..
    And then animals and horror entered their lives,,,to leave the young dude like that ?
    Words fuckin fail you ?

  13. this is the best article I have read on this story.

    I hunted around for articles to understand how a year later they now have these remarkable test results. This story covers all aspects and gives the backstory information about the misidentification of the body (Julio's). I have not seen that anywhere. and I am bilingual.

    congratulations lucio and bb great work


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