Friday, December 12, 2014

University Experts: Normalistas Were Not Burned In Cocula Landfill


 Borderland Beat posted and Translated by Pepe Republished from Proceso

MEXICO, DF (appro). Researchers at the National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM) and University Autónoma Metropolitana (UAM) today put into question the version of the Attorney General's Office on the fate of missing Ayotzinapa normalistas.

Bone fragment identified
At a press conference (PGR) at the headquarters of the National Center for Social Communication (Cencos), they ensured that the official hypothesis that the 43 students were burned is unscientific and, moreover, stated that the bone fragments which allowed experts from Austria to identify Alexander Mora, one of the alleged victims, came from a different location than the San Juan river, the alleged location where the ashes were thrown.

Jorge Antonio Montemayor Aldrete, from the Institute of Physics at UNAM, and Pablo Ugalde Vélez, a researcher at UAM Azcapotzalco, declared it "impossible" the hypothesis presented by the Attorney General of the Republic, Jesús Murillo Karam, based on scientific expertise and the review of public statements and photographs of Cocula dump.

The reasonings of scientists are compatible with considerations of fire and explosives expert, Alfonso Palacios Blanco, and forensic anthropologist at the UNAM, Lorena Valencia Caballero, interviewed by reporter Patricia Dávila and whose statements were published in Proceso on the 16th of November.

To Montemayor Aldrete "the official version is not supported by facts, but rather is a fantasy" created by Murillo Karam. The act of  destroying the bodies as described by the prosecutor needed, he said, the participation of "many more than three to 15 people" as the investigation says, and there only three detainees that allegedly took part in the destruction of the bodies.

The researcher at the Institute of Physics said that the remains of Alexander Mora were not burned at the dump because the circumstances in which the remains were found are more compatible with "acts and/or phenomena physical or from natural chemicals."

According to investigators, the first element that makes unlikely the official version is that the 43 bodies, "which are not balls or cylinders," supposedly reached the bottom of the dump as the accused describe, because the landfill "is not a slide and there's no report of them enclosing the bodies somehow to get them to roll to the bottom of the landfill," Montemayor said.


The document signed by Montemayor and Ugalde indicates that "in places of the greatest free fall, the bodies should have left traces of skin, blood and bones or pieces of clothing should have attached to articles in the landfill,  which would serve as sources of genetic material for identification."

About the source of the fire, their report finds that, to cremate 43 bodies, "33 tons of tree trunks, four inches in diameter," would be needed.  And this fire would have left residues "of bones and ashes of wood that would weigh about 700 pounds, of which about 250 pounds would correspond to human remains," which would "pack 12 bags with about 60 pounds each of waste combustion and mixed human remains."

burning tires produces very much smoke
If they had used tires to burn the students and "reduce the residues to the state as shown by the PGR, and supposedly as stated by the defendants, about 1000 passenger car tires would be required."

Montemayor said a human pyre the size that PGR said occurred, "would have been seen 5 or 6 miles away" and would have left the fire area with "blackened stones, broken by heat, and puddles of grease," of which, up to now he stressed, no evidence exists.

UAM researcher Pablo Ugalde, insisted that, based on the scientific evidence and understanding, "we can say that the hypothesis of the PGR is impossible, and it does not require a visit to the scene, only mathematical calculations based on the slope of the landfill to conclude it was not possible that the bodies would roll to the bottom of the dump."

He noted that the statements of Murillo Karam that the flames reached a temperature of 1,600 degrees Celsius "is disproved when you see pictures where remains of wires are seen, as steel melts at 1,600 degrees and if there were wires, that means the temperature did not reach that high."

The experts reported that the study will be sent to the National Human Rights Commission (CNDH) and the UN.



The question of where the bone remains of Alexander were found was initiated by the Argentine Forensic Anthropology Team (EAAF). In a statement released four days ago, they clarified that none of its members "witnessed the discovery of the fragment which culminated in the identification."

40 comments:

  1. damnit!!! i've been reading on this all night, you are really something, congratulations, all your ball, now murillo karam and pena nieto se van a cansar mas, i mean they will get even more tired...

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  2. Wow. Wtf now. What does this mean? That the PRI is a bunch of filthy liars. That they know where the students are and brought some students bones from there. So who the fuck do the bodies they have belong too. Where are the real bodies at? Is there a possibility they are still alive. Crazy fucking story Mexico. You never know what to expect in Mexico. That's why I read Borderland Beat daily.

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    1. What the hell is going on... They already got the midget mayor with his bitch wife captured they must know how it really happened. Why can't they just make those 2 tell the damn truth?. Instead of guessing and theorising all the fcking time, they gotta know since they gave the order to kill the 43. & Not just that, they also runned the pueblo with the guerrero cartel goons, so they gotta know the whole thing. Shiet some thing is not clicking.... what are they hidding

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    2. Why ?? Some might suggest that the orders to murder the normalistas go much further up than than just the mayor and his wife. If we are willing to surmise the worst imaginable, we would probably be far closer to the truth. The truth being that this sort behavior by the authorities is non-public national policy dictated by those powerful entities behind the US White House and NATO.

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    3. I still dont get it?? Can anyone please CLARIFY???? Is Alexander Mora officially dead or are those bones a coverup since the argentine team doesnt know where they found them?? Also i think the army must have killed the students at the base because there is an article on bb that says the students ran into the army and were never heard of since. The blame probably went to the police because imagine how pissed the people would be to find out the army who are the protectors of the nation ended up killing their own countrymen. The police in mexico are bad enough already so why not toss the blame in their direction with a fake story on how they died.

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    4. Angelo aguirre the ex-governor who had/has (due to the gov ties) the power of that state might be behind the cover up he could had been benefiting from the criminal activity the mayor and wife were running

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  3. I believe the cover up is being done by the government. I have a feeling that soldiers were involved and are covering in up. They will not let them pass onto the military cpmpund that is near because that is where it probably happened. A place where no one could see it happen and no one can now enter. How convenient. They will now have time to move the bodies and anything associated with this and move it far out of the area with impunity. There they can dispose of it and destroy all evidence so it can never be found. How can something like this not come to light very fast. All that shooting just a mile from the compound. It does not add up.

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    1. I had exactly the same thoughts.Blame it on the cartels and the lowly local police rather than the feds.They cant keep getting away with this;something has to give and that's why they didn't want the Austrian team investigating in case they found something which they did.Did you know that 1 of the bogyguards for the Argentina DNA team got assassinate?.

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    2. The government done these murders...and we all know it! The governments own security forces, have been doing these atrocities, all while blaming, shielding themselves with a "war on drugs".Lets just blame the gang members, cartels...dirty cops. That's the story...and they are sticking with it.This is the same lie that has been told over and over again, to protect their own.
      EPN is the head of this snake, his "security" is the body and those like the mayor and his wife, are the snakes rattling tail. You can cut the tail off of a snake, it will still live...but not the body and head! This snake needs it's head ripped off, its body shredded to death.Then, the people can be safe, not have to worry about getting bit by the snake anymore!

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    3. IFF IT WAS THAT EASY. Persons would just kill all the presidents of the world that aren't doing the job how they should, and everything would be fix. BUT THAT IS NOT THAT CASE!

      millie monster!! is that you?. Haha....

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    4. Thank you. It's time we start to think of the government purpetrators as guilty of anything and everything in order to force them to have to prove their innocence (or that they are clean).

      This is class warfare and it's about time that the 99% recognize it. We must begin to hold the 1% wealthy, powerful, and privileged class by a more meaningful standard.

      Of course, we the 99% still remain innocent until proven guilty. Maybe this can become our tool to finally turn the table on these savage monsters. Cheers ;-)

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    5. I'm sorry but I'm starting to see 1910 all over again! And the government should be scared shitless! The more they try to cover up the more everything will turn of them! That Time story of EPN was a total setup! All of the international billionaires got that story to enrich themselves with the resources of Mexico, and EPN and his cronies will reap riches while they give free TV'S and 7 dollar gift cards to the ignorant peasants! This story is bigger than just Mexico! Plain and simple it does not benefit the Billionaires to have a middle class in Mexico! They need cheap labor and to keep people ignorant! There is an elite class in Mexico that benefits greatly from the corruption and are some of the wealthiest people in the World! What passes me off more is the Mexican Military and Police are just ignorant pawns!

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  4. I used a somwhat less scientific method to arrive at the same conclusion. It sounds like B.S., was proceeded by B.S., comes from corrupt B.S.ers with something to hide,; therefore, it must be B.S.!

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  5. I have no doubt we may not have heard the truth in this matter,but the facts and figures the" investigators"are talking about are all theory,they are calculating what temperatures are needed,how much wood,how much ash,how many bags etc?If these facts are being released in an effort to force the truth out that's all well and good,but hopefully people don't get too focused on these figures,god knows,these cartels know how to get rid of bodies.The bottom line is the students are dead,maybe buried in one of the many clandestine fosas that are given up by perpetrators?

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    1. It's important because it discredits the government's story!

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    2. 6:17 PM
      No shit sherlock....
      Errrr,like we believed the governments story anyway?

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  6. Did we expect the truth? When government is so deeply involved, connections proliferate like a spider web. The criminally corrupt must lie, obfuscate, and deny in order to confuse those who would otherwise trace all the connection to the crime to include the army and the judicial police.

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  7. Just as we all suspected! COVER UP!!!! BUT WHY?

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  8. enough of the 43!!!!
    please, find stories. It seems all the posts are from forum and very limited in scope.

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    1. This matter will never be reported enough. If a family member would have been number 44, you would be crying a different chant

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    2. ...enough of your ADHD culero...you want something different; use google search. EPN is counting on mexicans to be like you and move on, so they can keep doing the same shit once people forget...lazy muddur fuker

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    3. @10:35 you are really one stupid one, if we stop reporting and commenting about the 43 they will never reappear! and worse, we miss the opportunity of finding other ""estupiros like you... --we are just giving the government a chance to be ashamed or get murdered soon if they don't produce our brothers they took away, their choice...

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  9. I am interested in knowing where Tuta is and when will Mireles be freed. This is a distraction so people forget Tuta

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    1. Tuta is playing dominoes with EPN, El (porky pig) Americano, Osorio Chong, and Castillo!

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  10. I am happy to dwell on the 43 students that were victimised by a corrupt government. Run their story 'til the crime is solved or 'til hell freezes over.

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  11. If the people want a change, they can think about marching at the Mexico border on all major ports into and out of the U.S.

    if they do this often to the point they disrupt commerce, they will have the attention of Mexico and the U.S

    The real question here is, where is Tuta?

    When are we going to see Chapo in the U.S.?

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    1. We want el chapo in the USA noww! ...lol ... & El mayo snitched!

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  12. I feel guilty complaining about the same thing, yes it is an important story, but yes it has been dissected and republished a million ways, throughout the world. I see in Mexican newspapers and blogs important stories that are not being covered. Sorry if this offends anyone.

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    1. Yes, this story is being run in many ways but this story shows the corruption all the way up to Los Pinos! Other stories will have their day, Just be glad that this story is out there at all! There are thousands that should have been out there that just went by the wayside! Even the Pope spoke up about the corruption and the students!!! It's time they put the real story out there!

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  13. They are ALL important stories. I want to hear each and every one of them. I can multi task. No need to focas on one. Publish the stories as they present themselves. Thank you!!!!!

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  14. The reason they are grabbing on to this one, is so that it just does not die with all the old ones and the knew tragedies. Somewhere the hook has to sink in deep and not just let this pass. If they do they know if can still keep going, and just slip away. That is exactly what the government wants. Would you give up if it was your child, son or friend? They cannot let this go, but rather find out how deep it goes into government.

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  15. until the Argentinian folks says it ain't so...I'm going with what they conclude

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    1. Me too. These "researchers" are making calculations without even visiting the site(s). Huge no-no.

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    2. mexican UNAM physicist Jorge Antonio Montemayor Aldrete did the calculations, believe it or not, there are some great mexican scientists, on many fields, drug trafficking and narco pimp, politician pimp,police pimp and whoremaster carlos slim helu, civil engineer, billionaire, master inver-zion-ist, is also a great mathematician, and an UNAM graduate...

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  16. There's little chance that 43 people are being held captive, sheltered, fed etc for this long. I doubt the truth will ever be known

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    1. I agree.I wonder what the other 42 family members believe now that the 1 is confirmed dead.I know they said they wouldn't believe it until theres DNA which of course will never be found.

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  17. Pinches soldados mexicanos y federales se los va a cargar la chingada junto con el pri!viene un golpe de estado socialista y se les va aacabar su pinche circo!la gente ya se canso!

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    1. @11:31 the mexican soldiers are said to be just "following orders", and in the mexican military, they do not act without orders, even if they do, their commander is responsible, or his commander, and so on and on and on, all the way up to the commander in chief, that is why so many times the mexican government uses paramilitaries, or plain sicarios and narcos to do their dirty deeds for them.

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    2. Ok then, aren't these soldiers Mexican citizens that serve their own kind! Who's going to be the one middlevel commander to turn on his superiors and force a revolution! These orders are all corrupted!!!! The Mexican people are crying for a real leader like Pancho Villa, and Zapata!!!

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  18. well I agree this is an important story, and BB coverage began well before this story of atrocities in iguala. BUT coverage is needed about other big stories, we can access English language stories of the 43 but not the others, like michoacan gone nuts with violence and conflict. rurales burning their uniforms, self defense going into 7 cities and taking up arms again because of the killings. stories like that are ignored because of attention to 43

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