Reporting on the Mexican Cartel Drug War

Mexican society and the problem of insecurity

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 |


PaQueSepas/Carlos
http://paquesepas.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/la-sociedad-mexicana-y-el-problema-de-la-inseguridad/

While the state is responsible for providing security to its citizens, it is also true that it is the responsibility of its citizens to require the state to fulfill this task.

It is difficult to separate the factors that have led us to this current issue of insecurity because every factor that makes up Mexico has been complicit: education, society, government, etc.. However, let’s try to center the focus of this post on Mexican society.

How is Mexican society divided?

Recent World Bank data (2009) indicate that 54.8 million Mexicans live in poverty, so keep in mind that roughly half the country lives in poverty.

Then comes the middle class. This information here is a bit vague. It all depends what you call middle class and and it is divided into 3 levels: lower middle class, middle class and upper middle class.

According to INEGI, the Mexican government’s office of statistics, the middle class is made up 25 million Mexicans. But this very ambiguous information if we consider that someone who earns between 6,000 and 65,000 pesos a month is part of the middle class (it is difficult to imagine, however, that a single wage earner earning 6,000 pesos a month can meet 100% of their needs).

To cloud the issue even further we must take into consideration that many people in the upper class are recorded in the censuses as middle class (they lie about their income).

So it's also difficult to estimate the upper class because it "dilutes" the middle class.

However, the one that stands out is the contrast in Mexico.

A country with half of the population living in poverty also is the home to the world's richest man. That only confirms the fact that the poorest 10% in Mexico collects 1.5% of total disposable income while the richest 10% accounts for almost 36% of income.

So why should we care? What good is there in identifying the social strata?

As is known, the middle class is what sustains a country. This class performs the work of production (the upper class generates income derived mainly from capital).

The middle classes usually have a good education and good living conditions. This class produces most of the state revenues derived from taxation. It is precisely the middle class that is endangered in Mexico.

So we have a country with many poor, few in the middle class that is actually shrinking and an upper class that grows richer with each passing day.

As was mention earlier at the start of this post, citizens are responsible for requiring the government to fulfill its functions. Why are the vast majority of the citizens not out in the streets demanding that the Mexican government fulfill its vital role of providing security?

I have a theory:

Most of the population, those living in poverty, are in no position to demand anything. Either they work to eat or they demand, but they can’t afford to do both.


Furthermore, to be aware of the government’s obligations and the right to demand they be fulfilled you need a certain level of education that, unfortunately, this social class does not possess.

It’s not that the poor don’t want an education, they can’t get one. Again, either you work to eat or you study, you can’t do both.

What's more, thanks to the lack of education, the poor are easily manipulated by those in power.

Worst of all, the poor have to seek illegal alternatives to move forward financially. These alternatives range from the informal or black market economy to robbery, kidnapping and of course the most profitable of all, drug trafficking.

So the drug cartels have plenty of people to recruit. The whole country has been responsible for creating a huge pool of "human resources" for the drug cartels.

Much is said that education is the solution and yes it is ... in the long term. But first you have to give the opportunity for people to meet their basic needs. Otherwise, as much as we could increase investment in education, the poor will not participate in it if they are starving.

What are the upper class, the rich, going to demand? Do they want to change the situation in the country that is enriching them every day?


Many of the rich have reached their position largely due to favoritism and nepotism in government. A few even have a certain complicity with drug traffickers. Of course, this part of society has to pretend they are concerned about the country, they have to keep some appearances.

The irony is that only now that insecurity is spinning out of control, they are beginning to worry. The downside is that they will not be able to fix this problem with motivational commercials.

It is left to the shrinking middle class, therefore, to demand change from the government. What recent history has taught us is that the middle classes have been the driving force in other countries for significant change.

In Mexico, however, not only is the middle class a small percentage of the population, but they unfortunately are "focused" on other objectives.


You could say the middle class is too divided. Those who are close to passing to the upper class are concentrating all their energies into it, to make contacts with elites, to not to fall down the social ladder. Those at the bottom, in the lower middle class, are totally occupied with not falling into poverty. They have to work extraordinarily hard to maintain that level.

Those in the middle (one might call the true middle class) are very few and exhibit some conformity of opinion. Here there are usually several "currents" of thought: "Things are going badly but what we can do" and the "We're not doing so bad, it’s the national media that promotes negative images. Anyway its only narcos killing narcos.” or the “The problem is between the army and the narcos.”

I would think that there is an alternative "current" at this level that thinks the situation is very bad and that something must be done about it NOW. Unfortunately they are too few to drive a change in the long-term outcome with their occasional protests.

So what can we do?

The truth is not easy to face. Some people fall into despair thinking that "promoting good family values is what will bring Mexico forward.”
I'm not saying good values should not be promoted, what I’m saying is that this kind of thinking, "I promote family values and love for children, and you? What are you doing for Mexico? " will not fix the current problem of insecurity. To promote family values should have started decades ago, it's too late now.

Unfortunately promoting values at this point in time does not protect against grenades, car bombs and massacres.

Anyway, as a society what can be done?

My opinion is: Society must unite, not all but at least the most important part, the middle class. All the middle class must unite and it would be ideal that many people in the poor class also participate.

You must be wondering about all this talk of class X and class Y but what do you expect? Mexico is class based country.

The point is that a large segment of society must begin to apply pressure, begin to demand that the government fulfill its functions, to denounce corruption and end the tolerance of impunity.

(This reminds me of a TV program called“Aquí nos tocó vivir” or Here we live. Thetitle provoked laughter and sadness at the same time. It seemed like the storytellers felt defeated by the fact of living in Mexico: "Aquí nos tocó vivir, ya ni modo” Here we live ... what can we do?)

So most important of all is that we must create a society that is no longer indifferent and DEMANDS CHANGE. A society that removes its blindfold and sees that there is a huge problem in Mexico right now, and does not pretend that it is the product of bad press, or thinks that that it is not directly affected and therefore should not act.

Finally, a society that ACTS collectively, not individually. The government will never react to a few people, but will bend in the face of a united society that pressures it to comply.

Atte.    Carlos

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64 Borderland Beat Comments:

Anonymous said...

"si se humillare mi pueblo, sobre el cual mi nombre es invocado, y oraren, y buscaren mi rostro, y se convirtieren de sus malos caminos; entonces yo oiré desde los cielos, y perdonaré sus pecados, y sanaré su tierra."

2 Crónicas 7:14

Anonymous said...

A+ effort. Well thought out.

Anonymous said...

no shit Sherlock!!! forgot to mention why 5% of the population has had to leave every year just to find a decent job to support those back home. if you include 2nd/3rd generation mexicans over 50% of their population has left the country!!! carlos slim and this corrupt system are the problem.

great article, to bad no one will mention this in the real media, hopefully mexicans will be able to fix it.

Anonymous said...

In Liberal Terms IS POVERTY A LICENSE FOR CRIMINAL CONDUCT ?? Is it a pass from responsibility, is it OK to conduct yourself with no regard for society or other humans? Why is it a given that the State is responsible for your security, Modern progressives clammor to have the State assume responsibility for their lives,problem is the State is,has,and will always be inept,slow,abused,ineffective, look at the countrys that have opted for Socialistic govt. check out the state of affairs!! Mexico lacks any reasonable security,this can be dramatically remedied by allowing responsible Citizens to arm themselves,absolute freedom of speech ,protected is no 2, then massive birth control program, then practicle manatory education reading writing math science-- NOT POLITICAL INDOCTRINATION( history) sllow foreign investment ,agriculture etc. Cut out the protectionist limits on business in Mexico,allow money and venture capital into Mexico.

Anonymous said...

@ August 10, 2011 6:34 AM
Poverty is not a licence to criminal conduct. For some it is 'have to', some people skrew their lives at some point and if you're already living in poverty it isn't so big step.
Poverty being so big because of so little wages.
You are police and you got to feed your family, it isn't so easy with those salaries and costs. Think about risks too. I'm just trying to get in their skins, I can imagine it is not easy task in long run when it is so easy, at least beginning and after that I don't think it's so easy anymore to quit.
Decades Mexico's big thing for economy and surviving for some has been partly from drugs, one way or another.
This one is so big task that I give huge respect to it when succeeding because it isn't easy task neither.

Anonymous said...

What Mexico needs is a real live revolution but it will never happen as for starters the people do not have guns. If you want a gun in Mexico you have to apply to the army for a registration.

If some other revolution occurred, such as in the Philippines or Ukraine it would have to start in Mexico City as that is home to 25 million souls....as Mexico City goes the rest of the country follows......now we just need an honest leader to rise up and start the revolution.

Anonymous said...

6:34 AM...Please put a space after your commas. It reflex that you most certainly did not do college papers and did poorly on your high school work. I shouldn't tell you this because this is how I know to overlook you BS opinions.

Anonymous said...

This article could just as easily apply to the US. If our middle class doesn't stand up soon, we will no longer have one. The elite as I have said, are the top 2% of income bracket, but amass 90% of the income. We keep allowing our politician to sell us this bullshit about free enterprise and capitalism and how anyone can become ultra rich and that they should have tax loopholes because it is just good for business. And that when they don't have to pay taxes, you have to pay more, but the wealth will trickle down. The US are follower fools.

@ 6:34 AM...Mexico has an Elitist Government, as far from a Socialist Government as you can get. We are a Capitalist Government and we are failing miserably. Canada is closer to a Socialist Government and is doing very well.

Anonymous said...

Come on, let's face it. A society that benefit the elites will never change unless there is united uprising. The uprising will not happen because Mexican people are too busy working double shift to feed their family. It's sad.

Anonymous said...

Viva la Mexico! That's my hope and will. Blessings from Europe.

Anonymous said...

This article is kind of stupid.

There are dozens of countries in the world that are poorer than Mexico that don't suffer from extreme drug trafficking and violence. In fact, until 2008, Mexico wasn't extremely violent. Most of the violent crime was petty street stuff like muggings, etc. The violence started when Calderon declared war on drug trafficking. I mean you can look at Mexico 5 years ago, and were people any richer? NO.

Anonymous said...

Article does a good job of explaining the socio-economic dynamic of the resulting drug war that the media ignores.

Mexico's govt and elites ignored the problems of corruption, class, and poverty for too long resulting in the cartels becoming to powerful, and the poor easily choosing crime because society ignored them.
Now the elites can't buy enough body guards to protect
themselves from this problem.

Anonymous said...

All too little too late and it´s not all Mexico´s fault. Some of the blame lies with the USA for not having any sympathy for the plight of Mexico. A simple legal entry workers program for starters. We draw a line, then we build a fence , then we patrol it with racists illiterates who do have guns as in Arizona . And let´s not forget the motive for this drugwar comes from the failed drug policies and out of control drug users inside the USA, not to mention our gun culture which has allowed the cartels to arm themselves like an army with 50 caliber weapons.
So while it´s easy to criticize Mexico for a failed cultural ambiance, the true failure lies at home northh of the border where all of these profits are generated. I´ve never seen a drug bust that didn´t show American dollars as evidence !

Anonymous said...

@9:38 AM

Capitalism works, you retard. Socialism fails every single time. Do you not read history? Do you know what made the United States so prosperous? Capitalism. Do you know what is killing the United States right now? A turn towards socialism.

It's not that difficult.

Anonymous said...

When you are up to your ass in alligators, its hard to remember your original objective was to drain the swamp.

Anonymous said...

I never see Mexico, or the Catholic church, take responsibility for the reckless production of children that took place for a century, filling up the countryside with people for which there were no jobs. Mexico had the highest birthrate in the world. Families with 10 kids living in a box with no economic opportunity anywhere around them. And I still hear Mexicans say, "I like big families." Big families in a landscape of zero educational or economic opportunities is precisely what has made an entire class of people that are enemies of the state.

El_Regio said...

@ 6:38 am! Spare us the Anti-American b.s.!!
If we are losing the middle class it is due to failed liberal socialist policies that are being implemented by corrupt Democrat politicians like Borak Obama. Nobody has suggested that the rich not pay taxes, what is being argued is that they not pay all the taxes. Instead we should cut our spending, rather than increase it. The middle class is purposely being driven into the lower class so they may become dependent on the Govt. and they will have control over you!
If we are failing it is due to socialist policies and leftist control of our Capitalist economy. It's funny how you point to Socialist Canada, but fail to mention socialist Europe, which has been the model for the failed policies of Borak Obama! I love hearing Bill Mauer down the US and say the Europeans are sooo much better! lol Just look at Britain right now, look at Greece, Spain, Italy, etc. etc. they are burning!!!! And us?

Anonymous said...

@ 6:34 you either did not read the article or can not understand it, either way you are a Dumba$$!

Anonymous said...

Congratulation on a stimulating article. The comments it provoked are intelligent and useful.
I recognize the article is limited, but I think a glaring ommision of factors that need mention is "Mexican Culture" per se.

By this I am thinking of the myriad things that prevent Mexicans from changing their belief and values systems (culture). These are well ingrained and serve a purpose but are part of the problem. Every social strata has lives within their assigned belief systems and is exploited by those in power to keep things as they are.... which is the problem.

Only when the pain is unbearable and the costs too high will the masses (from high to low) work for revolutionary change.

IMO: Things are a long way from this point as indicated by the lack of changes in how Mexicans continue to define their problems.

Mexico Watcher

Anonymous said...

Great article.
Right now, Mexico is in civil war.
I don't like to say it, but I can't see any other way for the average disenfranchised ethnic Mexican to go against the racist policies of the white Mexican elites that profit off the suffering of the people.

buela said...

IMO...the last paragraph is the most apropos

Anonymous said...

@ 9:23

Did u just say that in the US the top 2% make 90% of the income? A more accurate statement would be that the top 6% make up 30% of the income. Much different than the bull shit ur spewing. Do some research next time. Income distribution in the US isn't perfect, but its no where near what ur claiming. Compared to mexico we have a very large and well defined middle class

yoyo said...

"Finally, a society that ACTS collectively, not individually. The government will never react to a few people, but will bend in the face of a united society that pressures it to comply."

Tranlations: We must go to our slave master and ask him to treat us better rather than going individually

Hey, here's an idea: Get rid of the slave master and take responsibility for your God given duties and start to exercise your God given rights that allow you to fulfill your duties.

Anonymous said...

"Mexico has an Elitist Government, as far from a Socialist Government as you can get. "

How are those NATIONALIZED oil fields working out?

Every socialist government turns into an elitist government. One of the hilarious ironies of Marxisism is that it ultimately creates neo-feudalistic societies.

Anonymous said...

Mexican society must change first before it gets better the new generations are inferior to the ones than the ones that came before them they are very disrespectable towards themselves and one another they call each other wey that means fool they play around too much they are allways threatning too sodomizise each other in the old generations that at least would of gotten you a severe beating now they just laugh it off American society has gone down hill to the average person is a piece of crap all we can do is try to raise our children to have some pride in themselves and not be like the average joe or jose.

Anonymous said...

10:10 AM...You are one of those brain washed followers I am speaking off. You see the US through rose colored glasses and don't recognized how our economy has been effected by capitalism running a muck. I bet you think George W was the best don't you. We have off shored all our manufacturing jobs to other nations. The unemployment rate is astronomical, in some cities reaching upward of 20% and we keep encouraging our major corporations to off shore their jobs to other countries to maximize corporate profits. By the way, check the DOW today, its dropped 18% from its high for the year and is on the way down a lot more because the world is realizing the US doesn't manufacture anymore. All we do is sell each other insurance. A dark depression may be on the cuff due to our extreme love of capitalism.

The CEO of Walt Disney makes just under $400,000,000 yearly before perks and options. The least paid employee for Disney makes 14 cents an hour in Taiwan. You are probably one of those that think that is ok and he deserves that. No one deserves that. No man is that much better than another. The person making 14 cents an hour is probably a better person too. God don't like that because it is ugly. And who really pays for this ridiculous salary, the consumer. Thats bullshit !!!!!!!!!!!

There is a business movement that says a solid business should not have a salary disparity of more than 10 times. If the low employee makes $10.00 an hour, the boss makes $100.00 an hour. Others believe 30 times is a more appropriate figure. But when capitalism encourages the Disney style of exploitation, it becomes evil. Many professors in MBA programs support this 10X and 30X idea as good business practice. I do too.

Don't color yourself and others in a box with your labeling. It will close you off from reality.This is what the US middle class needs to attack before they elite own us here.

El_Regio said...

@ Anon 3:34 pm

I can assure you that G.W. was and is far better the B.O., that's for damn sure. Now as for the companies "off shoring manufacturing to other countries" well that is due to a variety of reasons anywhere from a lazy workforce, over regulation, over taxation, and Unions. All of those factors have severely hurt our ability to compete and we have allowed these groups/ideas to destroy our economy. lol the DOW is reacting to what you liberal socialist President (and sell out congressmen) did to this country recently by further putting us in debt. Please don't try to twist it any other way.

Oh lord, attacking the Disney CEO? really? I can't even comment on that!!! Way out of left field, it's out of the park! Unfortunately this is he same way the Pendejo In Chief believes.

I like how you use the example about salary disparity. Only a far left socialist would spew such rhetoric, and I do thank you for exposing what we already know about our Socialist Professors. lol What is that saying "Those who can't do, teach". I am sure these Professors would be singing a different tune if they were not tenured and working in the real world.

Ardent said...

All these Right Wingers that see socialist states in Mexico and the US really are living in total fairy tale land. Even as more and more of the population gets screwed over by capitalist economies you guys seem to completely blame socialism for that! Is that totally screwed up or what?

And 'Mexican society and the problem of insecurity' is not caused by 'socialist' gun control like you clowns always imagine it to be. It's hard to tell how democracy is supposed to work anywhere when we have so many damn morons amongst us, like you USA Right Wing nuts are. Both Mexico and the US are societies that are inundated with guns and weaponry of all sorts. Lack of armaments is not the problem here., and nobody is about to pry your precious guns away from your dead dead bodies even when you blow your own brains out, you paranoid freaks!

Anonymous said...

@12:21 PM...Actually the top 2% get 90% is a little old. It is more than that now. I don't know where you got your benign stats. Did George W tell you that?

DC said...

@ El Regio

damn bro...you sound like you really enjoy stepping the boot onto the common man..so yeah, I'll have your TPS reports soon el lumberg!

neways...

far left far right...same point in the circle...the D*ck!

Anonymous said...

.... "A measure of wheat for a penny "one day's wage". Rev. 6-6. "Prophecy before our eyes."
....The world today, besides Mexico is in trouble. If it weren't for welfare, social security, medicare, etc. the people in America would be in a world of hurt...
....THE APOSTASY as it is called in the bible (turning away from the ONE true living God...If you turn your back against God, He will turn against YOU..
....And still, People have no eyes, to see (spiritually) or ears to hear...The sheepole walk the blind walk..
....@Aug 10; 1:04...Your are on the right track..

Anonymous said...

If government, either USA or Mexico governments are of the people or will ever be of the people, then the people are or will be the government; all like governments of the people are socialist by their natural form, so be glad for the idea of socialism. Don't misunderstand socialism as necessarily Marxism.

Capitalism in both countries was or should have been just a tool on the road to true and pure socialism growing into economic democracy. Capitalism is old and tired, and that form of an economy in both countries is dying; that is why the populations of both countries are struggling with all these problems of poverty and other inequalities. The peoples are struggling to grow out of an old tired capitalism; they know it just does not work anymore. The elite tie capitalism to democracy to keep control; the masses then think to believe to be democratic, means, one must be capitalist.

Additionally, one does not need to be a capitalist to be patriotic; one does not need to be capitalist to be Christian. The elite in both countries would have us believe that all are bound.

Government helping the people equates to people helping people; that is, should you truly believe your basic belief that "government ought to be of the people" is the people, so why then should government (people) not help people? Why should government not contain excessive greed of some people for the sake of all; do some people have more right to life and quality than others? Do you believe that kings should be kings by the grace of God, that the men who are kings have special human status in the eyes of God? Do you believe that some men or women are more equal than other men or women; if so, you are likely using capitalism or any form of fascism--economic or political, as your mantra.

Socialism is just fine; socialism can live well in an economic democracy.

Do not misunderstand capitalism as democracy; one is an economic system, and the other a political system; that many consider both to be the same thing is error perpetuated by the elite. Capitalism is greed and it has always been based on a greed inherent to one lower form of inhuman collectivism just like communism; communism is an economic method, and is universally known to be a political system too, which is an errant understanding. Just like capitalism errantly being tied to democracy, communism was errantly tied to fascist political systems. They are merely economic systems, and systems that have long outlived usefulness for everyone but the elites of the world, no matter if the elites call themselves capitalist tycoons or themselves communist leaders.

No, capitalism and communism do not make a country anymore past an industrial revolution. The industrial revolution was capitalism and communism, and both were old means that have outlived usefulness on many levels; capitalism is old and tired as is communism, and the natural growth of both is socialism living in economic democracy. Capitalism is now greed by elite barbarians, tycoons, kings, and kings of all types (some call those kings presidents; some call those kings by organized-crime terms) who need to keep peoples divided, who need to keep fiat national boundaries, who need to keep races fighting, who need to keep class warfare ongoing, who need to keep the people drugged and suppressed (you know that if either government wanted to end the drug problems--truly, they would have ended it all by now; they have always had the means, but it is not useful for them to stop drugs and poverty and slavery), and keep people drugged by any means, including economic, substance, myth, religion, nationalism, racism--all can be forms toward the drugging of the masses

ajulio said...

@ el regio

the more i read your comments the more i dislike you. your ideas are full of shit. the reason why we are in a recession is because of rich corporations outsourcing businesses. there are no more jobs in this country. crooked politicians, especially republicans (Fuck the tea party!!!), who sell out to these rich corporations and allow them to destroy the american job industry by sending factories to china, india, mexico, etc., instead of providing jobs here where we need them. it's capitalism at it's greediest and the one's most to blame are the crooked politicians.

we need more socialism instead of capitalism. the government has to place higher taxes on the rich and give lower taxes to the middle class, who are the ones who influence the economy. give higher tax tariffs to filthy rich corporations who manufacture products in china. did you know that the company General Electric did'nt pay a penny of taxes last year? KEEP THE UNIONS. they were meant to protect the people from the factory owners. anyone who denies this, is probably a republican.

it was the bush administration that blew up the deficit by forcing on the world, two unnecessary wars. dubya also allowed tax cuts on the rich and allowed the banks to forceclose on homes. bush also gave billions to the banks who don't need the money. the bush administration is responsible for creating an 11 trillion deficit. the rich also were responsible for manipulating the stock market for their benefit. also for destroying the gold market, which i am involved with.

conservative republicans are only a party for the rich. they believe in corporate greed, outscourcing, no government involvement, overindulgence in natural recources and these idiots don't believe in climate change. bush sent thousands of soldiers to fight a self-centered war and then turned his back on the soldiers who returned back to the U.S. with injuries. FUCK CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS!

All these Right Wingers that see socialist states in Mexico and the US really are living in total fairy tale land. Even as more and more of the population gets screwed over by capitalist economies you guys seem to completely blame socialism for that! Is that totally screwed up or what?

i could'nt have said it better myself Ardent. great F' comment!

Anonymous said...

2% gets 90%? Show me one credible site that backs that up. Just one. Did u even bother to google it? No u just typed it. Idiot

Anonymous said...

For all those that want "all the jobs" that have been outsourced to India, Mexico, China... Have you considered the increase in manufacturing costs that having such jobs in the US instead of abroad would bring to the finished goods? Think about it: if a Mexican worker makes around 7.25 dollars (avg) per day, and a US worker makes even 7.25 dollars (fed. min. wage 2011) an hour, how much would that impact the total cost of each product? Just think about cars. A standard chevy, costs around 10k US in Mexico, that is, the base model, no AC, standard transmission, not even power steering. Fully loaded, the car goes up to about 15,000 USD. That same car in the US is about 9,000, fully loaded. The worst part is, that car is made 100% in Mexico, every single part, in Saltillo, Coahuila, to be exact. The car is then exported to the US, the re-imported back to Mexico, and we have to pay taxes for it, which makes for the price differential I just mentioned. Imagine if that car had been manufactured in the US, with US wages... So, in a way we are both screwed, and we both benefit. Mexico benefits from having the jobs, and the US benefits from the low cost, and of course, the manufacturer benefits from the big, fat, juicy profit margins. I'm just giving you one example of this issue. International trade benefits the world economy. Our problems in Mexico are much more complex than most people imagine, and the solution is far from being found. The issues require serious people, and there are many options brought about by comments posted here that would work, but the main question is, where and how do we start? I honestly believe that it is education, starting with teachers. Common sense on behalf of educators (like myself) reaching out to our students, even in those communities that seem "unreachable."

That's my humble opinion.... Thank you all for your opinions. This is another example of what free speech can accomplish.

Anonymous said...

You left out Religion, this is what the U.S. will look like in a few decades, and will look like
if conservatives and teabags turn the U.S. into a
Church based country

El_Regio said...

@ ajulio

Why so much anger towards people? lol You go on with the same tired argument against Republicans and Conservatives and you continue to praise Socialism. Answer me this, how is Socialism working for Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, and Europe?

Funny how you mention GE, the name Jeffrey R. Immelt comes to mind. Wasn't he appoint to Obamas recovery group? Weren't all the Wall street guys who caused this economic mess appointed to his cabinet? lol there is your Socialist President for you, that is what we can expect.

lol @ keeping the unions. They are in part to blame for the jobs leaving here and going elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, Unions had their place in society, when workers didn't have benefits, days off, unsafe working conditions, etc. etc. but they have over run their authority and are now a HUGE problem.

You should work on your anger bro.... really.

Bones said...

Where did you get this "top 2% makes 90%" statistic? Any reputable sources? Cuz it sounds like you just heard ur dad say it, then u posted it here.

Post a link with some stats someone

Anonymous said...

According to Carlos Castaneda's latest book Mexico has a middle class. Barely, only 55%-57%, but they have one and overall they can expect about 4% growth next year. In many ways Mexico is a prosperous, improving country.

So why can't the Mexican Army control anyone or anything for any length of time? Because they are no good at anything except handing out blankets.

The problem throughout Mexican society is "manana" and "ni modo".

This article fails to consider the millions of illegal migrants Mexico has dumped on the US. Totally does not address the issue.

ajulio said...

@ el regio

civilized response. russia is a communist country disguised as a socialist country under the corrupt leadership of putin. cuba is a communist country under the leadership of castro and his brother. venezuela under the leadership of hugo chavez is also a communist state with socialist ideals until hugo chavez dies. both putin and chavez have made themselves dictators of their countries by creating illegal election victories.

obama is not a true democratic president. he is a republican ass kisser. he gave in to republican ideology and sold out to filthy rich corporations. he is a horrible president. but i would rather have obama on my side than george dubya bush any fucken day. JFK and FDR were real democratic presidents. obama is an uncle tom president.

el regio, you must be rich or blinded by conservative ideals.

Anonymous said...

el regio

leave the dark side and join the force.

El_Regio said...

@ ajulio

Sorry Julio but your excuses don't change the fact that this socialist mentality just doesn't work. I have yet to see a country in which it has been successful for some time now.

lol Obama is a far left loon, so what do you mean he is a Republican ass kisser? Republican ideology is selling out to rich corporations? Really??? Can you not argue an issue without inserting childish insults?

Anonymous said...

First of all, I thought the article was about Mexico? Judging from the comments, the majority of them are talking about American Politics! Although it's true both countries share a long interdependent relationship with each other, no one country Mexico or U.S. creates gov't policy for the other. The point being Mexico's social/economical problems are Mexico's...the U.S. has it's own problems, as does any other country in the world.

Second, you don't need to be a scholar or some statistical brain to identify, what the problems are in Mexico or how the DTO's have managed to thrive. It's about MONEY, POWER, GREED, and OPPORTUNITY! If your poor with little or no opportunities (education or employment), and you bare a resentment towards the Gov't, who you feel has turn their back on you, well it's not hard to fathom that one would join a DTO as a way putting bread on the table (Opportunity, Money). Now, for the middle class, elite rich, or gov't leadership...the attraction is different and deals more with greed and power. They already have money or live a life free of struggle. Their motivation has more to do with increasing their wealth, in the forms of bribes, payoffs, and corruption.

The solution to the problem (Mexico's drug war) is very simple. You want to take all the power from the DTO's. You take away the common motivating factor...MONEY!!! We can all agree, for the most part...the Mexican Gov't knows, where the DTO's are laundering their money whether it be in the form of residential or commercial property. Furthermore, it's not hard to trace drug money being held in banks or over seas or up North (U.S). Without a money source, you put a stranglehold on a DTO's ability to purchase weapons, drugs, ,and hamper their ability to corrupt/bribe. Who's going to do work for a DTO, for free..if there is no money involved the risk seems foolish. Of course I've simplified things but it's a basic strategy that would only work if both gov'ts have the moral and ethical fortitude to pursue the course.

Anonymous said...

@ajulio,
You forgot to mention China, the biggest and most successful communist country, in the world! But I dare say, I wouldn't want to live there...no such thing as personal freedom in such countries.

I think you have over simplified the position of the "Tea Party" movement. The basis or POV of the "Tea Party" is not to protect the tax base of the rich rather to prevent the U.S. Gov't from spending money we don't have and borrowing money increasing our debt, and creating social gov't programs, we can't pay for. As far as taxation is concerned, the theory behind giving tax breaks to "big corporations" is so they will continue to grow and invest..creating jobs..hence grow the economy. I agree we need tax reform but we don't need a new form of taxation. You know what happens, when you burden large corporations with large taxation, they stop spending/investing money and move overseas for the cheap labor and operating costs...which in turn translates to loss of American jobs! The U.S. GOVERNMENT CAN NOT CREATE JOBS!! You can not grow the economy without adding jobs! I'm not a "Tea Party" member and I don't agree with all of their views..but it's common sense..socialism is not the answer..and will not work..creating opportunities and jobs and giving Americans the freedom to choose their own destiny and pursuit of happiness is their constitutional right!

Anonymous said...

@el regio, you and the people of the U.S. gotta come out of the anti-socialist closet. you say you hate it but stay quiet when you recieve your social security, unemployment, food stamps, medicaid etc.

Anonymous said...

@10:13 AM, where are all these jobs that you speak of? what jobs have all the big corporations given us? since the beggining of the bush tax cuts have we gained jobs? immigration imports have dropped btw.

Anonymous said...

@el regio, Australia, England, Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, France, Finland, Switzerland, those are all social democracies, many of which are still in the triple AAA rating in the world unlike US AA+

El_Regio said...

@ Anon. 12:52
No thanks! You really don't get the the whole idea of SS, and unemployment do you? We pay into those programs when we work, if you don't work, then you don't get any! As for food stamps and medicaid, well I have never gotten any of those so I can't speak. My belief is they should be cut unless it is really for a needy person, most on those programs don't need it.

El_Regio said...

@ Anon. 12:57
You should try looking up with the unemployment rate was during the Bush years (FYI 6%), what is it now? lol

Ardent said...

Russia, China, and Venezuela are not communist run countries. They are capitalist countries and their governments are run by people many might not like, but the economies are essentially capitalist at this point.

The same is very much true with Mexico. It is not a socialist country but one run through a totally capitalist economy. In fact, its capitalist economy is very much tied to the capitalist one in the US. Neither the US nor Mexican economies have any real socialist elements to them at all. Social Security and unemployment insurance or not socialist in nature but merely small reform programs run for the benefit mainly of the business community. Destitute beggars everywhere on the street is bad for business, too, and throwing some chump change at down and outers makes all think that the corporate run society is in some way much more benign than it actually is.

Anonymous said...

China may be fiscally capitalistic, but go try and organize a rally against the "government" and see how "capitalist" they are. You`ll see why we call their social policies communist. Hell, if you have too many kids, you are taxed extra. Not the kind of capitalism I want.

ajulio said...

feels good to hear people releasing their frustration on a tired party. these tea baggers are the most stubborn people on the planet. they would let the whole world collapse just as long as they get to keep their tax cuts and their money. and then you have the sad tea bag groupies who think that they will too, be rich one day.

we need a litle socialism. we need a little capitalism. it's when the politicians and the rich corporations abuse these systems. let's not forget that these are just theories until they are abused, then they become disasters. and right now the filthy rich are destroying the world because of there selfish abuse of capitalism. their theory is that they get to eat the entire BIG piece of the chocolate cake while the rest of us get to fight for the crumbs. what kind of Bullshit theory is that?!

all the rich know how to do is take from the middle-class and destroy everything else that stands in their way. that's why we need a better Democratic president than Obama. we need an honest president who will take on the corporations and will make them pay higher taxes; he will place higher restrictions on over-seas manufacturing and will bring jobs back to the U.S.; he'll cut unnecessary spending; he will acknowledge that the middle-class are the ones who make the world go round.

but it seems like the only way this will happen is if WE rule the house, the senate AND the presidency.

but the Tea bag Republican party cannot rule a country on their own. they're like a group of stubborn children who need to be disciplined. it's time for the Democrats to grab their balls, pull out a BIG leather belt, and do some Ass-whoopin!

Anonymous said...

@Bones according to Tax Foundation, the top 1% earns 20% of all income pays 38% of income tax.(2008 IRS returns) Top 5% earns 35% of income and pays 59% of income taxes. People read things on the internet and think they are true. No one fact checks.
@Anon Aug., 10 9:38
As one of those you hate, let me assure that my "loopholes" are the same as yours. My mortgage, and my property taxes and other state taxes. I don't even get to deduct the college tuition I pay for my 2 kids.
Isn't information a wonderful thing. Now you can let go of your hate.

ajulio said...

@ 5:19 pm

Good comment. China still has some of the worst human rights in the world and probably is #one in the usage of methods of torture used on it's people. It is a communist government disguised as a capitalist country.

Some people think that a country can only be one-dimensional and in the case of China, This is not true.

In the case of The U.S., it is true. The U.S. has become a capitalist country.

Ardent said...

Ajulio, the US has always been a capitalist country, except for the Southern portion of it at one time. So your comment about it 'becoming a capitalist country' makes little sense.

And China disintegrated under the Communist Party rule into becoming run once again by a capitalist economy. In the ex Soviet Union, the Communist Party top government leaders actually directly led the counter revolution and a return to capitalism. In China, the return to a capitalist country was also done by the Chinese Communist Party under the pretense of reforming 'communism', but less directly ideologically at first than occurred in the ex Soviet Union. Still, I seriously doubt that any intellectual or educated person in China today believes that what the Chinese Communist Party is guiding the country towards has anything at all to do with communism. It doesn't. It has everything to do with making China's CAPITALIST national economy as powerful as that of the European powers, Japan, and the US though.

And once again, there is nothing socialist about Mexico's government or its economy.

Anonymous said...

ardent what are you smoking? you just pull shit right out of thin air. china never was a capitalist economy and there has been no russian return to capitalist principles. china is definitely interested in power but they will continue to run the country as a communist dictatorship.

Your last post has to be one of your most ignorant and yet you have the incredible gall to criticize others for making "little sense". btw what does that mean? it makes some sense but not much? it makes no sense but you are being nice? it makes sense but in a small way?

why can't the mexican army control their own country?

Ardent said...

So you think that all those Chinese goods at WalMart and WalMex were produced by communism in China, Anonymous 10:16, all under the guidance of Mao Zedong Thought? And you also think that Russia is 'red', too? Friend, I feel like I'm talking to Rip Van Winkle when I respond to your post. Wake up time! China and Russia are capitalist societies now! Have been for some time.

I'm not sure why so many Americans can't seem to believe that a counter revolution has taken place in China and Russia? Capitalism has been restored there for way over 2 decades now, and it's even yesterday's news and not today's! So let's catch up with the world, PLEASE, USA! We really cannot afford a US population so out of it as much of it is.

...and 'why can't the mexican army control their own country?'

Short answer.... Because the US controls the Mexican army, the Mexican army controlling its own country does not really add up to any real people's control over Mexican's own sovereignty. That bothers many Mexican people when they begin to figure out who's running whose ship, and it's not them themselves. Go figure?

'L 'B said...

hey ard ..how about a short answer to this question....who controls the US government?

Ardent said...

Answer, Brito... it is basically the same corporate owners who also control Mexico. The large US based international corporations effectively buy up the so called 'democracy' and then install their paid for candidates into office in both countries based on their gargantuan purchasing power inside the political parties they control.

It is this complete lack of US popular control that makes people around the world mistrust the US government, and that is just as true in Mexico as elsewhere, with the possible exception of how some people in the North of Mexico do seem to mainly buy into the US consumerism which they would much like to participate in as upper Middle Class buyers.

'L 'B said...

hmm..good answer ard....

and lets look further..

who controls the corporations?..who holds their debt?..who finances their predations all over the world?..

hint

...it all leads back to a single one square mile area... on an island nation

Anonymous said...

ardent jajajajajaja LMAO jajajajajajaja you are hilarious jajajajaja

The US Army controls the Mexican Army and thereby prevents them from controlling Mexico - jajajaja. and it gets funnier.

The same corporations that control the US also control Mexico and the political parties in both countries THEREFORE people around the world do not trust the US and Mexican govts. Except for some people in northern Mexico who aspire to be upper middle class consumers. HUH?

I didn't think it was possible but ardent outdid himself in the same post. jajajajaja I can't stop laughing. Keep 'em coming ardent, they're great.

ajulio said...

@ 1:05 pm

funny and good point. i agree with you that the U.S. government does'nt control the mexican military. just another audacious comment coming from ardent's mouth. the U.S. helps the mexican government by supplying arms, training, money, intel but the U.S. does not run and control mexico's army.

@ ardent

you are right. china has become a capitalist country. not in the same sense as the U.S. or japan but it has surrendered to private enterprise in order to survive as an economic power. but it still keeps some of it's traditional values and restrictions. this country is too conservative to give too much power to the people but is very welcoming to rich corporations.

ajulio said...

north korea is a perfect example of a modern day asian communist country.

Anonymous said...

"While the state is responsible for providing security to its citizens, it is also true that it is the responsibility of its citizens to require the state to fulfill this task."

If the state is responsible for providing security to it's citizens then the country/state better have a body guard/police officer for EVERY single citizen. Other wise it is up to the person to decide whether he will want to protect himself.

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