tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post416500301852822128..comments2024-03-18T22:50:06.125-06:00Comments on Borderland Beat: Diario de Juarez asks Cartels: "What do you want from Us?"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-67096255531266710772010-09-21T18:43:25.465-06:002010-09-21T18:43:25.465-06:00Advocating making a deal-with-the-devil is wrong. ...Advocating making a deal-with-the-devil is wrong. A little bitty deal-with-the-devil is the same as a little bit pregnant. <br />A deal-with-the-devil is HELL.<br />Ask Faust.<br /><br />"No accommodation will be made to a tolerant population. It has never been done and it will never be done. As long as one it bent he will remain in the position until he revolts." <br />- - - This statement is not an opinion it is fact. <br /><br />The reason these cartels are not being attacked whole hardheartedly is because the people are not in revolt. (Revolt as in "upchuck", as in everyone to a man and dog saying "go to hell") <br /><br />All the *Ruling Class are fighting this war without putting themselves in jeopardy. They have no skin in the game. When they put themselves on the line, as the Ruling Class did in Colombia, they will win. <br /><br />*Mexico D.F.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-29197656426501074452010-09-21T16:01:00.196-06:002010-09-21T16:01:00.196-06:00Maybe Mexico and US should set up a special bi-nat...Maybe Mexico and US should set up a special bi-national program for Mexican Special Forces, advised and assisted by US Special Forces , like they did in Iraq, under now retired Gen. Stanley McChrystal, to apply counter-insurgency (COIN) methods to the Cartel gangs? That worked in Iraq using primarily Iraqi military & police personnel. And McChrystal would probably be available as a senior principal adviser to assist in set up and ongoing review, correction, and calibration of operations. <br /><br />OK, I know there will be a lot of objections but I'm just pointing out that it worked to eliminate the worst of Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq and the Sunni Baath Party (Sadam Hussein) terror campaigns. Were "targeted killings" the primary tool employed? Yes but the situation facing Mexico, and collaterally the US as an eminent National Security threat, is a gruesome battlefield.<br /><br />The new program would have to include really tough measures on the US side, like the targeted overriding of "Second Amendment rights" to cut the flow of weapons from the US to MX. And targeted suspension of the "Posse Comitatus Act" to allow military personnel to pursue and apprehend those involved in drug network operations on US soil. Plus the overriding of privacy of communications to intercept drug-related messages on phones and the internet. These measures could be put under review/control of a special judicial board/court to counter civil rights objections.<br /><br />I'm just suggesting...either do it soon proactively or be forced to do it later in a much worse environment under near panic conditions? For the US to consider: what if suddenly hundreds of thousands or millions of Mexicans, families with children, arrived on the border begging for refugee status in the US due to utter chaos and mass panic in MX?<br /><br />Again just suggesting...lettorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-46805990953953316422010-09-21T13:18:21.445-06:002010-09-21T13:18:21.445-06:00I'd say get out of the way, and hope for the b...I'd say get out of the way, and hope for the best, because it's not ending anytime soon. I feel the worst for the people in places like Juarez and Tamalupias that can't move, because they can't afford it, so they are stuck to deal with whats around them, but has nothing to do with them. But, telling people to 'stand up for themselves' is empty and thoughtless, in my opinion. It sounds good, and it's easy to make me sound like I 'work for a cartel', when the truth is you offer empty words of encouragement.<br /><br />There are so many factors at play here, it just all came together like the perfect storm for such atrocious violence, Zeta falling out with CDG, Beltran Leyva break from CDS, Chapo's greed, LFM emergence, but if the Zeta's can be broken down, and Juarez/Sinaloa can work something out, I believe there will be a great reduction in the violence. Things will probably never go back to the old days when things were so much more low key, but this won't last forever. <br /><br />I disagree, about the rabid dogs theory, I think that when this is done, the businessmen will get back to business, and the rabid dogs will be put down, for the most part. These groups have been doing business since the 80's, and before, it's about business.Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-63666496523887845212010-09-21T10:15:22.717-06:002010-09-21T10:15:22.717-06:00It is no longer the drug trade or cartels fighting...It is no longer the drug trade or cartels fighting with each other over business territory. These people are infected, they have gone rabid and have lost all rational constraint. They hold all life in contempt.<br /><br />There will be little help coming from the US that we know of.<br />O'the administration has tied up monies from the Merida Initiative has will do little more than talk. For, at least, the next year Mexico will be lucky if the assistance it is receiving remains.<br /><br />The people must stand up to Calderone and to the narcos. No accommodation will be made to a tolerant population. It has never been done and it will never be done. As long as one it bent he will remain in the position until he revolts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-50710364732926207352010-09-21T09:53:16.203-06:002010-09-21T09:53:16.203-06:00dear J said...
so just lay down and let is conti...dear J said... <br /><br />so just lay down and let is continue ...you offer nothing ...do you work for a cartel?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-15443728647314483722010-09-21T09:18:02.554-06:002010-09-21T09:18:02.554-06:00Seems to me that a good way to solve the problem i...Seems to me that a good way to solve the problem is to pay police a wage that is above what they get paid by the cartels. Maybe the US could help with that?<br /><br />Maybe have an independent, national structure where reports of crime can be reported. Maybe the police can also report crime there and people in their ranks who are on cartel side without any repercussion. <br /><br />It seems to me that there are many ways to approach this problem. The problem is that many governments benefit from the drug trade. And the Mexican people are too removed to care.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-63466890866203357922010-09-21T07:10:31.402-06:002010-09-21T07:10:31.402-06:00I was in Juarez as a journalist in June. My suppo...I was in Juarez as a journalist in June. My support goes out to the staff of El Diario and all the people looking to survive this war. Keep it up Borderland Beat.Josh Allennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-16378888478338960592010-09-21T05:35:11.481-06:002010-09-21T05:35:11.481-06:00Columbia is at peace but has the flow of drugs sto...Columbia is at peace but has the flow of drugs stopped at all? You gun nuts give Americans a bad image around the world we shoot and ask questions later you all are really tough. So the end game for this is the cartels move south after much bloodshed... Then what? Are we going to be reading BB Guatemala or Nicaragua? What then send in the hit squads again I guess? Or we could treat drugs the same way we treat legal drugs (booze tobacco). So poor brown people have the same advantages as rich white tobacco executives. Maybe we could take some of the deas budget to alleviate the poverty that drives people to this life. Or we could throw some more bullets at the problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-87968081822117983042010-09-21T01:44:56.165-06:002010-09-21T01:44:56.165-06:00@ J
I do appreciate where you are coming from, I r...@ J<br />I do appreciate where you are coming from, I really do...& you are keeping it real.. But another way to view it is that when people post things such as Mexicans need to fight back and pull themselves up etc, then it is is incumbent on us who live in MX or are educated to why this sounds so ridiculous to us to tell others why. That is productive...no? Educate/inform the ignorant, acknowledge what exists and spread the word. I also grew up in SoCal and have a home there &Texas/Mx. When I am @ home I try to appeal to friends to listen about what is happening in Mx & most say they can't hear about such things, it is too sad, or too horrific. It is upsetting to me, so when I see people on the blog expressing frustration because of Mx people not acting in the defense of Mx, then I am happy because I know there is someone that has their ears and minds open they are an interested party.<br />My dos centavosBuela Chivis ..AKA KABnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-79499228978163676432010-09-20T22:04:38.764-06:002010-09-20T22:04:38.764-06:00this is a very sad day when a newspaper organizati...this is a very sad day when a newspaper organization surrenders to a sadistic cartel. one feels that their is absolutely no hope for mexico and its people at this point. it is very frustrating to read this. but what else can they do without any help from their government? they feel helpless. el diario has always provided people with honest and professional information unlike the pm newspaper which almost seems to be glamourizing the violence in juarez and really doesnt provide much useful information at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-15635547935582748312010-09-20T21:47:43.161-06:002010-09-20T21:47:43.161-06:00what mexico should do is study colombia's past...what mexico should do is study colombia's past and try to immitate by seeking help from the u.s. gov. and coming together as a community and fighting these cartels through raw violence. that is the only language the mexican cartels understand. the columbian gov. fought pablo escobar with the help of los pepes, a vigilante group created by the citizens, who were fed up of being bullied by the medellin cartel and with the help of the u.s. gov... they found escobar and destroyed him. as they say, kill the head and the body dies. you have to destroy all of the leaders of these cartels including el chapo. the colombian gov. is not a perfect state but at least the gov. has regained its power and colombia is at peace once again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-19190734420527959212010-09-20T21:11:44.711-06:002010-09-20T21:11:44.711-06:00I thought it was mistaken identity; that they thou...I thought it was mistaken identity; that they thought he was the son of the car's owner.<br /><br />No one can say what one thinks, no one can say what one knows. Who is the bad guy?<br /><br />Calderón must establish plazas of trust.<br />He must man them with trustworthy and skilled people that can listen, discriminate, and accurately relay information.<br /><br />Until he can show the populace that he can establish <br />"Plazas of Trust" in each of the troubled states the people will not believe he is capable of winning this battle.<br />.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-3136622789303047192010-09-20T20:56:00.335-06:002010-09-20T20:56:00.335-06:00I really think this whole 'you need to stand u...I really think this whole 'you need to stand up for yourself Mexico' rhetoric is laughable, and to me, just exemplifies the way Americans view the rest of the world. 'Pull yourself up with your bootstraps' and all that nonsense. What do you suggest? Like someone said calling the A Team? This isn't like that innocent 80's tv show, where the villagers come together in a bloodless shootout in the last 15 minutes to overthrow evil. <br /><br />To me, from southern California, I am not in Mexico, those who 'stand up', end up on the street with a narco message pinned to their packs. It's too easy to arm chair quarterback from the safety of your own home. Please stop.Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-68919144107744085072010-09-20T19:02:24.716-06:002010-09-20T19:02:24.716-06:00This story has never made sense.
Mx Government sa...This story has never made sense.<br /><br />Mx Government says this killing was due to the victim's personal issue...Not his employment..<br />& this afternoon El Diario made issued a qualifier denying they will refrain from org crime stories. I posted this info this afternoon but here it is again...a message from the cowards which in a real sense their clarification provkes laughter as much as anger...I could not find the org source but el paso times has the story now...see below<br /><br />http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_16124900?source=pkgBuelanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-27697248900786989622010-09-20T16:21:24.481-06:002010-09-20T16:21:24.481-06:00"Alejandro Poiré, secretario técnico del Cons..."Alejandro Poiré, secretario técnico del Consejo de Seguridad Nacional, señaló que de acuerdo con las investigaciones de la Procuraduría de Justicia de Chihuahua, la agresión que sufrieron los dos fotógrafos del Diario de Juárez habría sido motivada por problemas personales y no de índole profesional." - Reforma<br /><br />Now they're saying the photojournalists were attacked because of some sort of "personal problems", nothing to do with being journalists or working for El Diario..<br /><br />????????????Ovemexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02911193441995059118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-1168124762698723552010-09-20T16:04:37.454-06:002010-09-20T16:04:37.454-06:00From the beginning it has not made sense at all.
T...From the beginning it has not made sense at all.<br />The only conclusion that does; is mistaken identity. He was driving a vehicle that was not his...<br /><br />HOWEVER; the Mex Gov announced today that the death had NOTHING to do with his work...it stemmed from a "personal issue"<br /><br />then there are the banners that went up last night<br /><br />Then there is this..report from El Diario, refuting that they will refrain from reporting stories of org crime...this explaination is cowardly if not laughable..just like all Mx press cowardly if not laughable..here it is<br /><br />http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/americas/news/article_1585837.php/Juarez-newspaper-denies-surrendering-to-organized-crimeBuelanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-51440295850479336942010-09-20T15:43:01.766-06:002010-09-20T15:43:01.766-06:00Mexicans stand up for themselves? On a bus from E...Mexicans stand up for themselves? On a bus from Escondido to Oaxaca City the bus driver had the AC a full blast even though it was the middle of the night and the temperature outside was cool. All the Mexicans on the bus were shivering and frozen. My American family was shivering and frozen. I tried to tell him to turn it down, but I speak no Spanish. Not one person was willing to tell him to turn down the AC. I finally convinced one woman to tell\translate to him to turn it down. She did so reluctantly, almost as if the driver would punish her in some way. He said he could not do it. I watched him turn it on, so I knew he could turn it off. She translated for me that he was lying that he could not turn it down as I saw him turn it on. I raised my voice at him and he finally obliged. <br /><br />The Mexican people seem to be perfect citizens. Completely in cowering fear of authority- even if it is just a bus driver, a cab driver, a priest, a mayor, a cop.<br /><br />Maybe it is the Catholicism. Maybe it is left over colonial tradition.<br /><br />Whatever it is- it AIN'T working.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-83313758534768575632010-09-20T15:38:12.767-06:002010-09-20T15:38:12.767-06:00Hay un error grandisimo no es este el unico period...Hay un error grandisimo no es este el unico periodico que a perdido reporteros, en Piedras Negras Coah. periodico "El Zocalo" a tenido varios periodistas ejecutados con narcomensajes<br />y otros que presumiblemente fueron "levantados" y nunca mas aparecieron.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-38776797241956982312010-09-20T15:01:46.240-06:002010-09-20T15:01:46.240-06:00There is no military victory against these groups....There is no military victory against these groups. They have too much money, power and control. there are too many poor people willing to join and too many folks who want the glamour, fame and wealth.<br /><br />This should be obvious to all.<br /><br />The only logical method of quieting down the cartels is to expropriate their monies, thus reducing their influence.<br /><br />The only extrajudical means is to create authorized "hit squads" who do like they did in Colombia to eliminate any and everyone involved in some capacity with the cartelss. Cut off the heads.<br /><br />But currently the drug groups can and will replenish their forces anytime. Hardly anyone can be trusted, people are scared and money talks.<br />There will never be enough prisons built to acccomodate the increasing numbers of arrested criminals.<br /><br />It must become vicious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-77624980366969827062010-09-20T14:43:04.338-06:002010-09-20T14:43:04.338-06:00sounds like a job for the "A-Team"!sounds like a job for the "A-Team"!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-40303616478751464382010-09-20T14:15:45.901-06:002010-09-20T14:15:45.901-06:00As an update to this post, El Diario has now recei...As an update to this post, El Diario has now received two responses to their editorial/open letter: 1 from Felipe Zamora Castro(Segob) in which he announces there has been no loss of "official law or power" and there is no narco law de facto in Juarez. Additionally he said he would look into the possibility of additional security (do they have any at this time?) for the newspaper and it's employees..<br /><br />http://sdpnoticias.com/sdp/contenido/nacional/2010/09/20/28/1119966<br /><br />The second response to El Diario was painted on a wall, supposedly from members of La Linea. The message denies any responsibility in the deaths of the two journalists.<br /><br />Additionally, the message states La Linea always takes credit/assumes responsibility for "their work" and does not leave threats via narco-banners, but with paintings on walls. <br /><br />The message ended with an open threat to any and all Cipol State police agents ( http://mx.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090225193459AAyMoki ).....<br /><br />Oddly enough, a half dozen state police vehicles where torched in the middle of the night and a narco banner with threats against Cipol and demanding the return of money was left at the scene. http://lapolaka.com/2010/09/20/cipoles-a-pata/ ....Was it from La Linea, or is every gang out to get Cipol police?Ovemexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02911193441995059118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-61277548312292608952010-09-20T12:56:10.419-06:002010-09-20T12:56:10.419-06:00Ovemex I sent you an email.Ovemex I sent you an email.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-54494133430485166102010-09-20T12:44:46.610-06:002010-09-20T12:44:46.610-06:00Ovemex, Thanks man, I often send these to friends ...Ovemex, Thanks man, I often send these to friends in the US media and many will pass the news along as long as the story is credible and well written. Since the Mexican media has been stifled it is important in my mind that we get the word out to the world for them! I will be glad to help in any capacity I can, let me know what I can do. Thanks for all the hard work you do. I am grateful for the site because I used to rely on awful translation programs that never work well, my Spanish is muy malo! Regards, Guero-Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-25987630992638060362010-09-20T11:45:09.467-06:002010-09-20T11:45:09.467-06:00@Anonymous 9:17 AM
Ay Guey! Are you offering your...@Anonymous 9:17 AM<br /><br />Ay Guey! Are you offering your editing services? jejeje<br /><br />I apologize for any errors, the translation was more difficult than anticipated, my bad.<br /><br />As soon as I get off work, I'll go over it again.<br /><br />Seriously, Thanks for your comment and btw, if you are looking to edit, I've got a stack of unedited posts on the back burner you may enjoy.<br /><br />Saludos!Ovemexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02911193441995059118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5195137745759962560.post-56351401575213306092010-09-20T11:36:41.710-06:002010-09-20T11:36:41.710-06:00I wonder how we in the United States would react i...I wonder how we in the United States would react if faced with these problems. I agree that the Mexican people need to standup for themselves and do something to change the cartels and the culture it has created in Mexico.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com